Rengo

Schwarzesmarken

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3 hours ago, Omega said:

Man it was bummer that the VN ended in a cliffhanger that probably one could see from a mile away. Still a cliffhanger no less. I wonder is the anime will cover the entire light novels or will it end like TE. I kind of want it to finish like TE because then I can go and have the excuse to finish part 2. If not then that's cool too. Because then I can be like a cynical asshole and say "Well the VN did it better." Provided of course they end the anime where Part 1 ended.

in TE I think it was more that the LNs were still not finished (and never were, they finished the story in the VN). Here they have a finished story with 8 LNs to adapt. If they have 26 episode they will manage, though it will probably be a tad rushed. However, given the spoilers I heard, they may prefer finishing earlier and not give us a depressing ending...

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And here we go, Schwarzesmarken 1 is out for everyone with english subs.

 

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I will wait for the uncensored version, but from what I heard, they already fucked up Beatrix as depicted in the LN with only two lines and one scene. Great.

Edited by Slump

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Huge improvement from TE. BETA's animation is top notch, not as rigid as TE and the OST are great. It helps to build a good tension 

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The first thing I noticed was the laser. They got it right this time. :D

I'm hyped!

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So far I'm not hyped (I haven't read the LN either), but they only introduced the setting and started on defining the characters, so it might get better. Feels like it haven't really started yet though, so I hope it will be 24 episodes so there is time for actual content...

I did not expect the historical references, but it seems like it could work well. At one point the Japanese felt a bit off though, but nothing too bad. I think several scenes might work better with a German dub though. I'm usually okay with it being Japanese even when it is supposed to be foreigners, but because of the setting I think some scenes would had a bigger impact on me if it was in German, because it would better fit into the image I have from documentaries and historical movies. And I think especially the scene were Katia is speaking about working together with West Germany in the corridor, it would be easier to relate to the doubt and fear about being reported if it had been in German.

However it is a bit strange how easily they accepted a deserter, not just into military service, but into a special force unit. Especially with such a fishy excuse... I also hope Katia will be more than just some random moe character. She is a veteran, but she is so clumsy that the first thing she does is to fall out of the bed?

If they did censor the gore, it was well done so it didn't look too obvious at least. But Japan and its censorship, I don't really get it...

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I thought it was rather good for an opening episode.  Gave a glimpse of who this team is, the characters in it, and left the story open for intrigue...can't complain about all that.  See where the next two episodes take us and then it's really time to pass some judgement! :P

It would be really good with some great German voice actors though.

The real saving grace over Total Eclipse is they didn't offshore the animation production to Korea / Vietnam to save money...those animation inconsistancies :o

Edited by sonsaku

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13 minutes ago, Spiller said:

However it is a bit strange how easily they accepted a deserter, not just into military service, but into a special force unit. Especially with such a fishy excuse... I also hope Katia will be more than just some random moe character. She is a veteran, but she is so clumsy that the first thing she does is to fall out of the bed?

It is until you realize the dire straits East Germany is in considering their lack of available manpower and the fact that 666th Squadron is already undermanned, lost another pilot in the most recent mission, and now has not only a replacement but an experienced one? Desperate times call for desperate measures, and it was made clear that it was a special probationary case.

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I thought it was an ok ep. The animation looks great, but I don't like any of the characters so far. Theodor is an ass, Katia comes off as incredibly naive, and I'm not inclined to like Beatrix at all

Spoiler

when she's introduced executing people for the Stasi.

 

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4 hours ago, derek58 said:

I thought it was an ok ep. The animation looks great, but I don't like any of the characters so far. Theodor is an ass, Katia comes off as incredibly naive, and I'm not inclined to like Beatrix at all

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when she's introduced executing people for the Stasi.

 

What about Irisdina?

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29 minutes ago, PulakK said:

What about Irisdina?

I kinda like her so far, not sure how that'll change as things progress.

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On 2016/1/10 at 4:28 PM, Dahelziel said:

And here we go, Schwarzesmarken 1 is out for everyone with english subs.

 

Not for everyone, only for japanese people and CR user.
I'm gotta wait for the torrent.
 

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Over Katia, is not only the dire state of East Germany (which is very dire indeed) but Irisdina herself pushing for it (I still haven't seen the ep, but in the LN it's actually Irisdina that wants to convince her and is surprised when she offers it by her own will). Hard to ignore the commanding officer of the squad and national hero of East Germany.

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I really liked that episode, when taking into consideration the state of affairs in the Muv-Luv world, there wasn't really anything that stood out to me as odd. The soundtrack was great and I thought the voice acting was fine, even Katia which I have seen some complaints about. Of course the animation was a significant improvement over TE and it portrayed the dark atmosphere nicely. I'm pretty stoked for this show and I can't wait for the next episode!

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With comparison with TE, I'd say it improved a lot as an anime. The animation for TSF and BETAs seems much more refined and I like the soundtrack so far. The general atmosphere that's being setup during this episode quite suit my taste. 

Though from the way I view, the pacing for the plot seems a bit rushed. Haven't read the LN or VN yet, but I felt like there's some missing details from the way the characters interact and certain events happening. (Well, probably just minor editing like every other adaptations) 

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On 1/10/2016 at 11:07 PM, G3rman said:

It is until you realize the dire straits East Germany is in considering their lack of available manpower and the fact that 666th Squadron is already undermanned, lost another pilot in the most recent mission, and now has not only a replacement but an experienced one? Desperate times call for desperate measures, and it was made clear that it was a special probationary case.

They might be in a dire situation, but it appears to be pretty clear that they are not desperate enough to work together with West Germany. As far as I understood they do have other TSF squadrons, so they could reallocate pilots if necessary if they added her to another squadron. If they really needed manpower they wouldn't place a potential double agent in the place were she could do the most damage so easily. Doing that without any form for trust/insurance would seem more suicidal than desperate in my opinion. If she had a convincing explanation for deserting and had to go through a trial period outside the squadron to prove her loyalty, it would have been more believable. But placing an enemy who is likely to back stab you on critical missions just like that, even after announcing that she had a hidden agenda for joining? That is just too far out...

18 hours ago, Marx-93 said:

..., but in the LN it's actually Irisdina that wants to convince her and is surprised when she offers it by her own will

In the anime Katie brings it up on her own accord and Irisdina states clearly she hadn't said anything to her. After hearing that Katie is curious about the people from East Germany and wants to be friends, Irisdina appears to have been convinced that it is a good idea. Other than Gretel suspecting Irisdina, there is little to indicate that this was her plan all along (other than that it appears she was waiting for her to wake up).

But her willingness does make more sense considering the LN, but that only explains Irisdina's acceptance, not that the superiors would approve. And I still don't see why Irisdina would be so interested in bringing her that  squadron unless she was planning something behind their backs.

18 hours ago, Marx-93 said:

Hard to ignore the commanding officer of the squad and national hero of East Germany.

That might be the case for Gretel, but that doesn't mean Irisdina is allowed to do whatever she pleases. She will get a black mark like everyone else if she does anything suspicious. I don't think that being a national hero would protect you much. They might not remove her if she is too useful, but there is no doubt that they would limit her freedom greatly if she didn't behave herself.

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4 hours ago, Spiller said:

In the anime Katie brings it up on her own accord and Irisdina states clearly she hadn't said anything to her. After hearing that Katie is curious about the people from East Germany and wants to be friends, Irisdina appears to have been convinced that it is a good idea. Other than Gretel suspecting Irisdina, there is little to indicate that this was her plan all along (other than that it appears she was waiting for her to wake up).

But her willingness does make more sense considering the LN, but that only explains Irisdina's acceptance, not that the superiors would approve. And I still don't see why Irisdina would be so interested in bringing her that  squadron unless she was planning something behind their backs.

That might be the case for Gretel, but that doesn't mean Irisdina is allowed to do whatever she pleases. She will get a black mark like everyone else if she does anything suspicious. I don't think that being a national hero would protect you much. They might not remove her if she is too useful, but there is no doubt that they would limit her freedom greatly if she didn't behave herself.

The battlefront is reaaaally in need of experienced soldiers. I think they had 3 squadrons of TSFs there, and all of them barely above half strength. On Irisidna, well, saying more would be spoilers, but she is already black marked, and placed in that squadron because of that (everyone there literally is there because of that, they just have gotten good enough at it they've become an elite squadron). Luckily for her, most of her commanders aren't actually from the Stasi, but normal officers who actually respect and value her a lot. Given her standing and value as propaganda, I just figured they simply left her alone running ultra-hard missions hoping she'll get killed some day while making something useful. I mean, from the point of view of the Stasi, if Katya is a deserter, no big deal, they'll just execute Irisdina (and probably half the 666th squadron) with a valid reason, it's not like they are opening the gates of their government to her.

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7 hours ago, Spiller said:

They might be in a dire situation, but it appears to be pretty clear that they are not desperate enough to work together with West Germany. As far as I understood they do have other TSF squadrons, so they could reallocate pilots if necessary if they added her to another squadron. If they really needed manpower they wouldn't place a potential double agent in the place were she could do the most damage so easily. Doing that without any form for trust/insurance would seem more suicidal than desperate in my opinion. If she had a convincing explanation for deserting and had to go through a trial period outside the squadron to prove her loyalty, it would have been more believable. But placing an enemy who is likely to back stab you on critical missions just like that, even after announcing that she had a hidden agenda for joining? That is just too far out...

Explaining further is spoiler territory, but the 666th is already a special case squadron which is why getting a new pilot is more difficult and why it doesn't take much for the higher-ups to accept Katia's incorporation. The truth is she can't do much damage to the government or the Stasi at all in a suicide squadron like the 666th, at least as far as they are concerned.

Also, East Germany might not have opened their border to the West, but they have allowed West German-UN units to cross their border and operate on the war front. So they are working with the other Germany, in some capacity.

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Ok. First impressions from the episode 1:

Animations is good. Carnelian appeared in the credits so at least there is that consistency with the novels art. The OST (except the ED) is the same OST used in the VN which I don't blame them, it's really good. The pacing is a little too fast for my taste but since its an anime, that was bound to happen. I feel that Theodor comes more off an ass here than in the VN because again lack of characterization due to time constrains. Same with Irisdina. The conversation they had in Poland after "that happened."

Spoiler

The death of Inghild or Ingrid or Inghilde. I swear there are like 5 ways to write this.

was more powerfully done in the VN. In the anime it was just like 4 sentences before saving Katia.

Spoiler

In the VN, the back and forward between Theodor and Irisdina had tension and suspense. It wasn't just Theodor wagging the finger to her and calling her an informant. There was legitimate fear from Theo (Yeah I get to call him that) . In the VN, He thinks the reason why Irisdina called him alone on a mission is because she is going to execute him or torture him. In the anime it's not obvious that Theo fears the STASI, too me it feels that he is just pissed at them for what they did to his family, not fearful.

 Again, time constraints. Also they better start explaining the role of a political commissar real soon otherwise people will start to say "How come a lieutenant can talk back to a captain?" and get confused. But there was one legitimate thing I didn't like. Again, all things I said right now are all because they have a limited time slot in an anime-cour. But that last scene with Beatrix just came out of nowhere and to me it cheapens her as a villain. In the novel she is background character in the beginning and only comes into motion after "things happen". It's subtle, may I say sexy in how evil she is. It perfectly represents the STASI. A looming fear in the background that in any given notice will transform and jump back at you. I see why her squadron name is the Werewolves now. Thanks literary analysis! In the anime we immediately antagonize her BEFORE her character is introduced. That is the key difference. We hate her before we even hear her utter a sentence. It would have been a more powerful scene later on the anime, not in the beginning.  Ok, I might come out as a nerd right now but...Have you guys read 1984 by George Orwell? Spoilers of 1984 ahead!

Spoiler

In the book, the thought police is an ever looming entity that remains in the background for quite a while in the book. We all know the atrocities they do and are never shown. We all know that Eurasia is a place where everyone snitches each other but its never shown. The reason is because we follow the life of Winston and to him, that was all background noise until he gets betrayed. The torture scene, the room 101, the Betrayal of O'Brien. All of that becomes much more powerful because again, we all knew those aspects where present in the world but we did not see them until he gets to see that. That when we truly realize that the IngSoc is the absolute worse of the worse. A demon that remains on power for power sake.

So to me is kind of like that you know. That is how you show how godawful the Stasi is. Make the fear and paranoia an ever present reality of the world but show it when its due, otherwise they appear only as the "the bad guys" instead of a sick ideological system that works from top to bottom, from official to soldier to civilian. And that is my impression of the first episode.

 

tl;dr: It was good. Entertaining and an improvement over TE. Some problems with characterization due to time constraints and a weak villain introduction but overall solid. Will watch till the end. 1 Thumbs up!

 

Edited by Omega

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I can only say that after two episodes (and without having read it beforehand) Schwarzesmarken is being a very big dissapointment. I don't know if its because I expected too much to start with, but the story so far is very underwhelming full of things that don't make any sense. Hope is that all clicks in the end, but it's a very dim hope as what I see are too easy exits for explaining things and hows.

 

Spoiler

To put it simply , the "sister" of the protagonist is annoying. How the RDA accepted her and pressed her into service without training is annoying. The OH SO EVUL Stasi is annoying, to the point that they seem and act real evil moustache-twirling stupid, the inconsistencies are annoying, as why the heck are teenagers pressed into TSF service in Western Europe if up to this point this shouldn't be the case yet, at least so young ones. Annoying. The Sqn acts like it's based in Tokyo, not in the RDA, one would think that with a so bitchy evul Stasi the atmosphere would be different. Annoying. And the main character...ugh.I could say more, but why torture anyone with that. Only one last thing: I don't even know if I am gonna follow it to the end at this point.

Also I am aware that I might come as whiny, but my disappointment is bigger than a jupiter-sized Fort Class.

 

P.D: RPG's should kill tank Beta class easy.

 

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On 17/01/2016 at 10:41 PM, Karolus said:

I can only say that after two episodes (and without having read it beforehand) Schwarzesmarken is being a very big dissapointment. I don't know if its because I expected too much to start with, but the story so far is very underwhelming full of things that don't make any sense. Hope is that all clicks in the end, but it's a very dim hope as what I see are too easy exits for explaining things and hows.

 

  Hide contents

To put it simply , the "sister" of the protagonist is annoying. How the RDA accepted her and pressed her into service without training is annoying. The OH SO EVUL Stasi is annoying, to the point that they seem and act real evil moustache-twirling stupid, the inconsistencies are annoying, as why the heck are teenagers pressed into TSF service in Western Europe if up to this point this shouldn't be the case yet, at least so young ones. Annoying. The Sqn acts like it's based in Tokyo, not in the RDA, one would think that with a so bitchy evul Stasi the atmosphere would be different. Annoying. And the main character...ugh.I could say more, but why torture anyone with that. Only one last thing: I don't even know if I am gonna follow it to the end at this point.

Also I am aware that I might come as whiny, but my disappointment is bigger than a jupiter-sized Fort Class.

 

P.D: RPG's should kill tank Beta class easy.

 

  Hide contents

They decide to use teens in tsfs due to the fact older generations used to piloting other craft form bad habbits and have low affinity so are very clunky at operating tsf compared to some one with no piloting experience, high affinity and are educated from the ground up to be an eishi.

When they changed how to make tsf pilots, they increased the overall survival rate and efficiency.

Not forgetting many people still die in combat so ofc the young ones replace em.

 

I am enjoying the anime and we finaly got to see a fort class use its tail, fully animated!

Edited by Reavan

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On 19/1/2016 at 3:10 AM, Reavan said:
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On 19/1/2016 at 3:10 AM, Reavan said:
  Reveal hidden contents

They decide to use teens in tsfs due to the fact older generations used to piloting other craft form bad habbits and have low affinity so are very clunky at operating tsf compared to some one with no piloting experience, high affinity and are educated from the ground up to be an eishi.

When they changed how to make tsf pilots, they increased the overall survival rate and efficiency.

Not forgetting many people still die in combat so ofc the young ones replace em.

 

I am enjoying the anime and we finaly got to see a fort class use its tail, fully animated!

They decide to use teens in tsfs due to the fact older generations used to piloting other craft form bad habbits and have low affinity so are very clunky at operating tsf compared to some one with no piloting experience, high affinity and are educated from the ground up to be an eishi.

When they changed how to make tsf pilots, they increased the overall survival rate and efficiency.

Not forgetting many people still die in combat so ofc the young ones replace em.

 

I am enjoying the anime and we finaly got to see a fort class use its tail, fully animated!

Spoiler

Knowing from the game how the TSF training goes(it's NOTHING special), they could have people from 18 upwards fully trained at this point. It's not like the URSS and China had been the main ones getting chomped by the BETA in the year Schwazermarken is. Remember Europe at this point is still going "well", like being not chomped. Also, what are you refering about compatibility is in the initial TSF deployment years, with the F-4 and the hastily retrained aircraft pilots. In fact I bet the main issue was the clunkiness of the TSF interface response and the unknows on BETA capabilites and behaviour rather than the pilots doing stupid. The "heroine" at any point seems to have gone any sort of training, it's like a schooler put directly on a TSF who happens magically to know how to handle it, but his attitude is...out of wave at how it had to be given the circumstances. As of now, Schwazermarken setting is not well done, and not only because of the characters. Any Stasi acting like in ep2 in rl would be courtmartialed and executed for sabotage of military operations concerning the main and last defense line of GDR's cities. I mean, I know it's a manga/game setting, but how it is presented it doesn't make sense. I don't know if it's because Muv Luv Trilogy is done in a game with more time to explain things, or perhaps because it is better thought. For starters, the situation on the trilogy CALLS for out of ordinary measures, and humanity is like 1/5 or less of what it was, and in fact about what you say regarding recruitment, in the Original Trilogy is humanity last effort. In the early eighties(1983) the issue wasn't manpower as the setting is presented and what I have read.  In fact Hive Budapest didn't even exist yet, so the nearest one was the Minsk one from the late seventies. Even so, the main issues for me, to sumarize and not get lost on a rant on everything, the things that if they where different, it would be better are: Totally WTF military actions about whatever, being the most glaring examples the recruiting of the defector and the OH WE ARE THE BAD GUYS NOTICE US PLS STASI, followed by the feeling that some characters are simply stereotypes put on the squadron for the sake of stereotypes. 

 

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8 hours ago, Karolus said:
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Knowing from the game how the TSF training goes(it's NOTHING special), they could have people from 18 upwards fully trained at this point. It's not like the URSS and China had been the main ones getting chomped by the BETA in the year Schwazermarken is. Remember Europe at this point is still going "well", like being not chomped. Also, what are you refering about compatibility is in the initial TSF deployment years, with the F-4 and the hastily retrained aircraft pilots. In fact I bet the main issue was the clunkiness of the TSF interface response and the unknows on BETA capabilites and behaviour rather than the pilots doing stupid. The "heroine" at any point seems to have gone any sort of training, it's like a schooler put directly on a TSF who happens magically to know how to handle it, but his attitude is...out of wave at how it had to be given the circumstances. As of now, Schwazermarken setting is not well done, and not only because of the characters. Any Stasi acting like in ep2 in rl would be courtmartialed and executed for sabotage of military operations concerning the main and last defense line of GDR's cities. I mean, I know it's a manga/game setting, but how it is presented it doesn't make sense. I don't know if it's because Muv Luv Trilogy is done in a game with more time to explain things, or perhaps because it is better thought. For starters, the situation on the trilogy CALLS for out of ordinary measures, and humanity is like 1/5 or less of what it was, and in fact about what you say regarding recruitment, in the Original Trilogy is humanity last effort. In the early eighties(1983) the issue wasn't manpower as the setting is presented and what I have read.  In fact Hive Budapest didn't even exist yet, so the nearest one was the Minsk one from the late seventies. Even so, the main issues for me, to sumarize and not get lost on a rant on everything, the things that if they where different, it would be better are: Totally WTF military actions about whatever, being the most glaring examples the recruiting of the defector and the OH WE ARE THE BAD GUYS NOTICE US PLS STASI, followed by the feeling that some characters are simply stereotypes put on the squadron for the sake of stereotypes. 

 

Well, kinda agreeing to some of your points. That's what I've been expecting to happen when the adaptation is announced. Recent anime adaptions often put more emphasis on crucial story events and inevitably evaded the setting and character-building elements. (at least from my opinion as normal viewers)

Can't comment much on Schwazermarken's actual content until I've played through the VN or read the LN though. Hopefully these might give better reasoning/explanation to some of the plots.

Edited by Svenhent

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From what i understood, the Stasi thing seems to be an anime problem. While in the VN and LNs they were also seemingly dumbed down to basically the inquisition of W40K (in the sense of being more oppressive and with more power than the real commissars ever had during the Revolution) it wasn't that, "in your face" to say it. I think they did that to give Beatrix screen time, if not the viewers would think she would be a secondary character until the end (and knowing how she seems to be so popular...)

On the setting, I will say that I partially disagree, and the Katya thing has already been discussed (though Katya was already a fairly decent pilot for Western Germany, so I don't know what you meant by "magically to know how to handle it"). Western Europe is in full retreat, moving their citizens from the continent to America and Africa, while after the loss of the URSS Eastern Germany is basically alone against the invasions of the Minsk Hive. Seeing as they don't accept much of NATO's help and NATO itself is more worried on the evacuation of Western Europe I see the desperate times perfectly explained.

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6 hours ago, Svenhent said:

Well, kinda agreeing to some of your points. That's what I've been expecting to happen when the adaptation is announced. Recent anime adaptions often put more emphasis on crucial story events and inevitably evaded the setting and character-building elements. (at least from my opinion as normal viewers)

Can't comment much on Schwazermarken's actual content until I've played through the VN or read the LN though. Hopefully these might give better reasoning/explanation to some of the plots.

It's a shame setting and character building is left to rot.

 

 

2 hours ago, Marx-93 said:

From what i understood, the Stasi thing seems to be an anime problem. While in the VN and LNs they were also seemingly dumbed down to basically the inquisition of W40K (in the sense of being more oppressive and with more power than the real commissars ever had during the Revolution) it wasn't that, "in your face" to say it. I think they did that to give Beatrix screen time, if not the viewers would think she would be a secondary character until the end (and knowing how she seems to be so popular...)

On the setting, I will say that I partially disagree, and the Katya thing has already been discussed (though Katya was already a fairly decent pilot for Western Germany, so I don't know what you meant by "magically to know how to handle it"). Western Europe is in full retreat, moving their citizens from the continent to America and Africa, while after the loss of the URSS Eastern Germany is basically alone against the invasions of the Minsk Hive. Seeing as they don't accept much of NATO's help and NATO itself is more worried on the evacuation of Western Europe I see the desperate times perfectly explained.

For the first paragraph: A poor choice. Now not only they seem evil, but stupid. I am still facepalming hard at the fact that to kill someone they would compromise the last defensive line.

 

For the second: The URSS is still fighting. In fact is one of the paths where the BETA are having more fierce resistance. As I recall, the BETA always follow the path of less resistance, and it happens that the URSS it's not going to have bitten the bullet until well into the 90's.1983, Scandinavia is still resisting at the north, and south and south east of eastern Germany there was resistance still. East Germany wasn't at the receiving end of all the Minsk hive power. Also,  Western Europe could be relocating their population, but they aren't losing tons of people to the BETA , bringing them to the point to have someone as young as Katya is in a TSF fighting. If you ask me this is simply poor ploting and disregarding "in universe rules" set in previous works off said universe.
Something I used for a RP introduction: (map gif, be warned, it's spoilerish)

Spoiler

The not so pink parts, like fibers, is where the beta do incursions.

c9e524a816bb2540414ce31fbd19c224.gif


 

 

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