~Freedom

300k $ surplus theories

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3 hours ago, cabfe said:

Sorry, it's slightly off topic, but is there a chronology for all those alternate stories?

In what order should they be read?

It doesn't really matter, but I'd start with the original trilogy because it is the only one that assumes you don't know what's going on and it has a lot of value based on that. Release order is usually best because it looks better as you go on instead of worse and if there's any references later on you won't miss them. Here's a tangled web of everything in the ML universe and their release dates. With everything above ML in the relationship chart, you're not missing anything except maybe KimiNozo, and even then you just understand the background between a couple of secondary characters better. The anime's really worth watching for itself, though.
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3 hours ago, cabfe said:

Sorry, it's slightly off topic, but is there a chronology for all those alternate stories?

In what order should they be read?

Basically you always need to read them after their source material and on a chronological release base, even if they are telling events happening before it. There is always a lot of references you could only understand after reading the source.

Here is the chronological order I would tend to use if I had to start over ( I'm not counting the LNs here when a VN is available, as I personally think they are really apart as their VN counterpart strongly altered them in a way or another ) :

 

Spoiler

 

- ML Extra/Unlimited ( 2004 )

- Before the Sakura Trees Bloom ( Muv-Luv Supplement - 2004 )

- Heroine Short Story Collection ( Muv-Luv Supplement - 2004 )

- ML Alternative ( 2006 )

- Before the Shimmering Time Ends ( Altered Fable - 2007 )

- Atonement / Inheritance ( Ayu Mayu - 2008 )

- The Euro Front ( Compiled in DUTY-LOST ARCADIA - 2013, but written in 2009 )

- The Day After - Episode 00 ( Chronicles 01 - 2010 )

- Chicken Divers ( Chronicles 01 - 2010 )

- Rain Dancers ( Chronicles 01 - 2010 )

- The Day After - Episode 01 ( Chronicles 02 - 2011 )

- Aspiration ( Chronicles 02 - 2011 )

- Confessions ( Kimi ga Ita Kisetsu Remake - 2011 )

- Total Eclipse ( 2012 )

- Teito Moyu ( Total Eclipse - 2012 )

- The Day After - Episode 02 ( Chronicles 03 - 2012 )

- Resurrection ( Chronicles 03 - 2012 )

- The Day After - Episode 03 ( Chronicles 04 - 2013 )

- Last Divers ( Chronicles 04 - 2013 )

- War Ensemble ( Chronicles 04 - 2013 )

- SchwarzesMarken ( 2015/2016 )

- Bernhard im Schatten ( 2015/2016 )

 

 

And here is the same list, but arranged by their main relationships so you can get an overall idea ( Though doing them in this order could make you miss some things ) :

 

Spoiler

 

- Kimi ga Nozomu Eien / Kimi ga Ita Kisetsu ( Though they are not necessary, they are in the same universe than Extra and introduce a lot of characters you will encounter through ML )

- ML Extra

--- Before the Sakura Trees Bloom

--- Heroine Short Story Collection

- ML Unlimited

--- The Day After ( Up to episode 3 at least, maybe next episodes will reference SM )

--- Last Divers ( Connected to Chicken Divers too but not in the same timeline )

- ML Alternative ( 2006 )

--- Atonement

------ Confessions ( Though it's not directly connected to Atonement, it actually helps for all Marimo-related things )

--------- Inheritance ( Main characters are from Kimi ga Ita Kisetsu )

--- The Euro Front

------ Aspiration

--- Resurrection

------ War Ensemble

--- Total Eclipse

------ Teito Moyu

--- SchwarzesMarken

------ Bernhard im Schatten

--- Chicken Divers

--- Rain Dancers

--- Before the Shimmering Time Ends ( Actually mainly connected to Extra as it's based on the same universe, but includes a lot of characters from Alternative )

 

 

Before the Sakura Trees Bloom is actually a sequel to the Sumika's route in Extra, so you might consider not doing it if you don't like her.

TDA and Last Divers being on the Unlimited timeline, you don't need anything besides Extra/Unlimited to read them ( Except maybe SM, as a new episode of TDA could possibly make reference to Pre-Unlimited events )

The various TSFiA issues should go basically everywhere, but I honestly don't want to list them all here. Again, the chronological release dates are a good hint to when to read them, but if I should start to read all of them over again, I would probably do it after everything else. Not the best experience as they are strongly connected to some source and side materials so it's always better to read them just after, but definitely the most convenient way to do it.

 

EDIT : Dammit, took too much time to write it :P

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@Anix @Slump thank you!

This is definitely much more complex than I thought.

I'll start with the original Extra/Unlimited then, but do you think it'd be best to switch to the Muv-Luv Supplement (as included in Photonflowers) *before* reading Alternative? It should work that way, if you look at the release date.

I haven't read anything about Muv Luv, so I try to avoid spoilers as much as possible.

There are so many novels, it feels like starting to read the Star Wars expanded universe books :o

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2 minutes ago, cabfe said:

I'll start with the original Extra/Unlimited then, but do you think it'd be best to switch to the Muv-Luv Supplement (as included in Photonflowers) *before* reading Alternative? It should work that way, if you look at the release date.

Decide when you finish ML Extra. you might be sick of that part, or you might be intrigued by something cool that happens at that part. Either way, that's a good time to read it and it really depends on your taste, your mood at the time, and how much of a completionist you are. I just took my time with Extra and didn't know anything about it going in, so I 100%ed it before triggering a thing. 

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@cabfe

If you aren't familiar with ML at all, I would recommend to do the trilogy first, unless ( And only unless ) you are really aiming at doing the entire franchise and want to get the same experience as a ML fan would have got through the years ( It's worth it, but it requires you to switch plots a lot as sub-series are scattered over the years ).

Don't be afraid by the numbers of side-stories though, a lot of them are really short.

Edited by Slump

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Meaning it took forever and I wanted to move on.

1 minute ago, Slump said:

Don't be afraid by the numbers of side-stories though, a lot of them are really short.

As in <10 minutes.  And some are just pointless wacky hijinks. 

Some are definitely more worth it than others. I think it was Atonement that I really wish was part of the main game. Others were obviously not even canon.

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6 hours ago, PulakK said:

Well, on the one hand I don't like the uncertainty regarding the full-version localisations of TE and Schwarzesmarken; I'd have preferred a full-on confirmation, but I suppose the team's just being pragmatic here.

On the other hand, localized demos means more free stuff in English! Er....right?

With large kickstarters it is best to be pragmatic and careful. But we are doing our best to make people happy. 

But yeah a lot of the cost eaten up by shipping because ...lots of physical goods than most kickstarters and everyone is scattered about!

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I disagree on some of the things about the order. For example, Teitou Muyou was released after the Total Eclipse novels, but it works to set up Yui's character and actions at the earlier parts of it and make her a lot more likeable. It was not put as the earlier parts of the anime for nothing, and it still launched alongside the Total eclipse VN. So I think waiting for the Total Eclipse VN before reading it is doing a disservice to yourself.

Also, a lot of the complements are completely forgettable or very short, so feel free to skip some. The most important rule should be only to go through the original trilogy first (with some of the complements indicated above if you want) and then Before the Shimmering Time Ends (part of Altered fable), which while not necessary I think it's a lot more effective to read a little after finishing (or re-reading) Alternative. For the rest, I would set up as "arcs", with an * marking the ones that we know are going to be translated (and the parenthesis telling the compilation they will be released under in the West). Reading the Main one first is very strongly recommended, but besides that you can do as you like.

Main:

- ML Extra/Unlimited *

- Before the Sakura Trees Bloom (Photon Flowers)*

- Heroine Short Story Collection (Photon Flowers)*

- ML Alternative *

- Before the Shimmering Time Ends ( Photon Melodies )*

- Atonement* / Inheritance*/ Confessions*/Chicken Divers (Photon Flowers)*: This ones can work any time after Alternative, no need to read them before any other arcs. Confessions is pretty short, and basically a recap of a part of Alternative in the eyes of a side-character (with a lot more focus on her feelings and inner turmoil), and the rest are expanding the setting and some characters back-story.

Total Eclipse (there's an anime covering the first half and Teito Moyu, no that bad as adaptation)

-Teito Moyu  *

-Total Eclipse

SchwarzesMarken (there's an anime, currently airing, and currently a fairly bad adaptation)

- SchwarzesMarken : A 2-part VN. Demo will be translated

- Bernhard im Schatten : A prequel to the 2-part VN. However, it contains heavy spoilers of the earlier, so it should be read only after it, like Atonement/etc before.

EuroFront:

- Rain Dancers (Photon Flowers)*: You can choose either it or Aspiration as the first. The two work very much as an introduction to the EU army. Rain dancers is very short and self-contained, while Aspiration introduces the cast which are the main characters of Lost Arcadia. As long as you read Aspiration before Lost Arcadia the rest doesn't matter much, and even this is not very important.

- Aspiration (Photon Melodies)*: Introduces the cast of Lost Arcadia through the eyes of a Japanese exchange student military officer sent to Europe. Very comedic and fanservice centered, but works very well to introduce the Zerberus Battalion.

- The Euro Front ( Compiled in DUTY-LOST ARCADIA - 2013, but started on 2009): Basically a light novel that recompiles all the TSFiA stories with the Zerberus battalion as its main characters.

- Resurrection (Photon Melodies)*: Really could be read any-time after the Main Arc. It's probably one of the more self-contained stories, and in fact it's more or less part of the Main Arc (it actually happens in Japan, though the MC is an European agent). I just feel that some of the backstory is better understood after Rain dancers. It shares some themes and general antagonist (as in, the organization, not the characters) with the first half of Total Eclipse (the one the anime covered), and the main character actually has a cameo of half a second there, but you can really read them in any order.

The Day After

- The Day After - Episode 00

- The Day After - Episode 01 

- The Day After - Episode 02

- The Day After - Episode 03

The sub-series is still not finished. Could be considered a sequel to MuvLuv Unlimited, but it contains some very heavy Alternative spoilers and references, so you should finish the main arc before jumping in. Also

- Last Divers ( Chronicles 04 - 2013 ): Contains the Day After 03 heavy spoilers. Thematically related with Chicken Divers above, but it's really not important.

And then -there's War Ensemble, but I know literally nothing about it, and I haven't found information. So, for now, this is it. Yeah, it's daunting, but if you realize, 70% of it are  short complements recompiled in 2 games.

 

Edited by Marx-93

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3 minutes ago, Marx-93 said:

I disagree on some of the things about the order. For example, Teitou Muyou was released after the Total Eclipse novels, but it works to set up Yui's character and actions at the earlier parts of it and make her a lot more likeable. It was not put as the earlier parts of the anime for nothing, and it still launched alongside the Total eclipse VN. So I think waiting for the Total Eclipse VN before reading it is doing a disservice to yourself.

Well, I kind of disagree too with both you and myself : The best moment to play Teito Moyu would actually be between two parts of TE, as I think you really need to already know the " mature " Yui to fully understand her young self. Sure, playing Teito Moyu before TE would work too, but I don't think it's the best experience.

That said, I really dislike TE and never did it twice so I forgot a lot of things, maybe I'm not the best to judge when to do it.

 

13 minutes ago, Marx-93 said:

And then -there's War Ensemble, but I know literally nothing about it, and I haven't found information.

War Ensemble is about the 98' Invasion of Japan and features technology first seen in Resurrection.

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Holy shit, you know you're in a room with hardcore fans when they're debating what order every little thing should be read in. I was just planning on buying and playing the original trilogy, followed by the photonflowers and photonmelodies compilation. Of course, I also look forward to the Schwarzesmarken VN and Total Eclipse as well.

I also find it interesting that both Schwarzesmarken and Total Eclipse have their fair share of detractors, especially with regards to the anime adaptations. In fact, the one component of the franchise that gets the most amount of acclaim would be the original trilogy (though I have seen Youtube comments critical of Alternative so yeah, looks like not everyone loves it after all).

Well, in any case, can someone explain to me why I have such a massive crush on Yui Takamura despite perhaps knowing the least about her as a character? Could it be her pilot suit? I think it's her pilot suit.

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8 hours ago, Slump said:

Well, I kind of disagree too with both you and myself : The best moment to play Teito Moyu would actually be between two parts of TE, as I think you really need to already know the " mature " Yui to fully understand her young self. Sure, playing Teito Moyu before TE would work too, but I don't think it's the best experience.

That said, I really dislike TE and never did it twice so I forgot a lot of things, maybe I'm not the best to judge when to do it.

 

War Ensemble is about the 98' Invasion of Japan and features technology first seen in Resurrection.

Thanks. It's the one about infantry? And I can respect that (about Total Eclipse), though having first experienced Total eclipse through the anime (the only thing translated back then) I personally prefer Teito Muyo first. Find it very hard to sympathise with Yui otherwise, even with how much of a douche Yuuya is.

@PulakK, to be honest, I don't find the order very important as long as you play the original trilogy first. Thought however that putting everything in arcs would make everything make a lot more sense and easier to keep track off. It also allowed to me put in a more clear way just which side-stories will be translated in Photon Flower and Melodies, something I saw there was quite a bit of confusion on.

 

Edited by Marx-93

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1 hour ago, PulakK said:

Well, in any case, can someone explain to me why I have such a massive crush on Yui Takamura despite perhaps knowing the least about her as a character? Could it be her pilot suit? I think it's her pilot suit.

Long black hair. I don't really like Yui as a character, but long black hairs are always a win on the sexy side.

 

8 minutes ago, Marx-93 said:

It's the one about infantry?

Mainly yeah. Talk about the new kinds of TSF and exos of that era too.

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2 hours ago, Slump said:

Long black hair. I don't really like Yui as a character, but long black hairs are always a win on the sexy side.

 

Yeah, I really do like her 2001 hairstyle too now that you mention it, but what's with that white cloth that ties a few of the locks together? I've seen the Fujibayashi sisters in Clannad sport similar hair ornaments, so could it be some kind of Japanese thing?

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11 hours ago, Kashiwagi said:

Everyone needs to stay away from my waifu. Haruko is MINE.

Or rather, you are my waifu.

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18 hours ago, Kashiwagi said:

Everyone needs to stay away from my waifu. Haruko is MINE.

 

6 hours ago, Mormaethor said:

Or rather, you are my waifu.

Oh my.

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23 minutes ago, Klashvorn said:

 

Oh my.

Y'know, I returned just to make that comment.

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That's as good a reason as any :P

 

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Cut it out - that money would be best spent on the additional staff costs to ensure a smooth launch of what they've promised.  Nothing ever goes according to plan and game development is certainly no exception.  Even when you think it's a safe bet there will be things that go awry and cause delays.  You can't know the price tag until the fat lady sings, and even then you still have to pay people to handle support.  It is so easy to stick a number on it and say "oh, they beat that number, they have extra."  It just isn't so, kiddo.

Stand back and let them work.  Just be sure that they'll do all they can to ensure you get the best product they can give you.

On 2/1/2016 at 8:32 AM, Slump said:

Long black hair. I don't really like Yui as a character, but long black hairs are always a win on the sexy side.

I like Yui well enough - I was married to a grouchy gal like her for a while.  She's been through a lot, cut her some slack.  Of course, the hair makes a nice bonus....

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