Mkilbride

If you could change one thing about Muv Luv, what would it be? [Spoilers]

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A story moment, a characters death, ect. Something like that. Only one.

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In general?  The infantile violence between Takeru and Sumika in Extra.  Kinda funny, but it just gets old.  I mean, I don't know anyone who behaves that way past age 4....

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Really? That? Aw. I loved it. It's so different than any other MC in anime / VN who treats every woman like he's the epitome of nice guys. It also shows that Takeru is not sexist, as he will hit a girl. I thought it was charming.

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@MkilbrideOne of the two. Either

Spoiler

have Mikoto live, i still feel having her die was unnecessary. Having essentially no one left in alter-verse that lived through the exploration of Kashgar kind of leaves a bitter taste.

Spoiler

Give Takeru a tsf rather than having him sit put in the XG-70. Although admittedly there is something i like about this at the same time.

Actually this one.

Spoiler

Don't kill off S00mika right away so it's plausible for Takeru to loop again.

 

Edited by StormVanguard

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On 7/23/2016 at 6:36 PM, Mkilbride said:

Really? That? Aw. I loved it. It's so different than any other MC in anime / VN who treats every woman like he's the epitome of nice guys. It also shows that Takeru is not sexist, as he will hit a girl. I thought it was charming.

You haven't seen this elsewhere?  It isn't very uncommon in older work (which this is, admittedly).  My objection isn't so much that it's there at all, it's the sheer amount of time spent on it.

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Ignoring Extra,

Less comedy/romance in Unlimited and Alternative and more organic deaths (Kashgar felt like a script). So I guess I'd want the atmosphere to keep me always tense, kinda like Game of Thrones.

That's just off the top of my head though. I'll have to replay Alternative to remember everything to give a better answer.

On 7/23/2016 at 8:23 PM, StormVanguard said:

 

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have Mikoto live, i still feel having her die was unnecessary. Having essentially no one left in alter-verse that lived through the exploration of Kashgar kind of leaves a bitter taste.

 

 

Spoiler

Wow, that's pretty harsh to Kasumi

 

Edited by David

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@DavidThe Alternative manga has actually been covering different p.o.v's so i'm anticipating we'll be able to see the battle outside of Kashgar.

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5 minutes ago, StormVanguard said:

@DavidThe Alternative manga has actually been covering different p.o.v's so i'm anticipating we'll be able to see the battle outside of Kashgar.

Spoiler

If I'm not mistaken, the XG-70 and co were the only ones at Kashgar. Everyone else was lasered in the air or destroyed immediately on the ground.

Unless you're referring to battles at the other Hives? Well, possibly, but at the rate the manga is being released/translated I'm worried that we'll get to the Kashgar Hive by the time I've lost interest in this series.

 

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@Davidtonigobe needs someone to take over or help him out because yeah it's clearly gonna take as long as Berserk to finish. lel Five years now i still haven't grown out of this series being my top favorite. Personally i'm a firm believer there's still much more to come so i don't mind the wait when it's a series like this.

At the other hives i think Kashgar was barren outside. But that operation was a little too epic to ignore what was happening across the map.

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Spoiler

Meiya Route in Alternative. This still rustles my jimmies.

 

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@OtakUub

Spoiler

TDA is the answer my friend.

Spoiler

Noooobllleee coonnfiidaaannts~ ...ow i hurt myself.. ;_;

 

Edited by StormVanguard

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2 hours ago, StormVanguard said:

 

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TDA is the answer my friend.

 

 

Spoiler

Does Meiya get romantic moments in TDA? I thought that series was strictly serious apart from the main character (no romance apart from the hero and his team)

 

Edited by David

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@David

Spoiler

It's pretty suffering but i'm anticipating something that will get the feels going in tda final if we ever get it.

 

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On 7/22/2016 at 7:00 PM, rlranft said:

In general?  The infantile violence between Takeru and Sumika in Extra.  Kinda funny, but it just gets old.  I mean, I don't know anyone who behaves that way past age 4....

Personally, I kind of enjoyed this. For several reasons, actually. I think the biggest reason is that it really does give you an idea of what kind of person Takeru is, as well as show that Sumika and him get along in a way that they don't with other people. To me, this really sells the "Childhood Friend" in a way that most other stories don't.  They didn't "grow up" between the two of them because they've never had to be apart. It shows that they're both immature brats, especially when dealing with the other of the pair.

As far as what I would change, that's hard to say.  I will say that I was quite surprised during the Extra Meiya/Sumika story:

Spoiler

When Takeru tells the story of a guy confessing to him, and then him punching the guy in the face. I don't know if this would necessarily be the one thing I'd change, but it certainly felt like it had no room to be there. Especially since it kinda makes light of the message of the story as a whole. I know this was a matter of when it came out and that it's meant to be a joke, but it felt incredibly unnecessary.

If not that, maybe in Alternative (major spoilers):

Spoiler

At the end, make it clear that Alternative-verse will hold "An unnamed soldier" as the hero of the special assault. Gives Takeru the props and respect he deserves, and prevents anyone from accidentally bringing him back. I understand that since Takeru loses his memories as he transitions into Altered-Fable it doesn't really matter to him, but him leaving Alternative with very little recognition feels so unfair.  He was a hero of heroes and no one will even have a clue that he existed.

 

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A game of thrones series set in an alternative alternative world would be pretty good...someone ought to pitch it to HBO.

I would change the near end of Alternative where by trying to save everyone, Takeru ended up getting everyone killed. It's been a while since I've played alternative but I distinctly remember thinking "if only Takeru sacrificed X person, then they wouldn't have had been in such a bind where everyone died."

Also on the issue of violence between Sumika and Takeru, it kind of made me feel like Sumika would've been in an abusive relationship for the first half of Extra. He got much better towards Sumika in the later half. Meiya seemed to be able to handle Takeru quite well.

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16 hours ago, limith said:

 

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I would change the near end of Alternative where by trying to save everyone, Takeru ended up getting everyone killed. It's been a while since I've played alternative but I distinctly remember thinking "if only Takeru sacrificed X person, then they wouldn't have had been in such a bind where everyone died."

 

Spoiler

That's pretty much the whole point of the series. Particularly Extra and Alternative.  In the Meiya/Sumika route of Extra, the reason things got dragged out as long as they did is because Takeru is indiscriminately nice. He refused to entertain the thought of either Meiya or Sumika being in love with him because he thought that seemed awfully arrogant (that's never explicitly stated, but it's implied). Marimo and Yuuko sit Takeru down and explain to him that even though he felt that he had no agency in the situation, it was his responsibility to determine who he'd reject.  Ultimately, because he drug it out for so long, neither of the girls could handle it and he almost lost them both. If he tried to save them both, he'll have no one.  But if he were to choose just one, he could repair his relationship with her. If he had accepted his responsibility and rejected one of them sooner, everyone would have been spared a lot of stress.

In Alternative (it's a little fuzzy because it's been 2-3 years since I read it), Takeru is confronted with the idea that he might need to let people die to further humanity's cause. The whole time, Takeru struggles with trying to be more decisive and less wishy-washy. The deaths of his squad double as an exaggerated metaphor for them being rejected. Perhaps there was a more efficient way to handle it, but because of Takeru's tendency to be "nice" to everyone, he couldn't make the decisions that needed to be made, meaning everyone got backed into a situation that was much tougher than it needed to be.  This flaw of Takeru also highlights the other message of needing to rely on the people around you, and not trying to shoulder the burden by yourself, which is what Meiya was doing at the end of Extra.

Quote

 

Spoiler

Also on the issue of violence between Sumika and Takeru, it kind of made me feel like Sumika would've been in an abusive relationship for the first half of Extra. He got much better towards Sumika in the later half. Meiya seemed to be able to handle Takeru quite well.

 

Spoiler

That's just their relationship. They're equals. Equal rights, equal lefts. It really goes to show that Takeru, at the beginning of Extra, doesn't see Sumika as a girl at all. He gropes her chest in the beginning and doesn't think anything of it at all.  Later when other girls get close to him, he makes internal comments such as "They're touching me", as he's conscious of them.  But he can touch Sumika's without a second thought, and without lingering on it because he doesn't see them as arousing at all - they just happen to be attached to Sumika.  Certainly, Sumika shouldn't put up with as much bullshit as she does from him, but it seems like the only reason she does is because she fell in love with him without realizing it.

The reason he treats her better as it goes on is because he becomes more conscious of her as a girl, and he knows that that's no way to treat a girl. He flicks Meiya once or twice, but I think it's because she started to act in ways that evoked the same responses from him that Sumika did.

 

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I take it back. I want to give Takahashi a larger role in Alternative. Dude deserves more than just his Hero of the Federation feat. Hell, he might be the only one who could match Alternative Shirogane in piloting.

Edited by David

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Oh, show a bit of Takeru and the girls landing outside of the Kashgar Hive. I can imagine that getting inside would've been nuts, but I'd love to actually see some of it.

 

Edited by derek58

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@derek58 Pretty sure that scene was added n the all ages or windows 7 release. It played out as a short cutscene (sprites, not anime) while blasting the old alternate op music.

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On 7/30/2016 at 3:42 PM, Blessel said:
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That's pretty much the whole point of the series. Particularly Extra and Alternative.  In the Meiya/Sumika route of Extra, the reason things got dragged out as long as they did is because Takeru is indiscriminately nice. He refused to entertain the thought of either Meiya or Sumika being in love with him because he thought that seemed awfully arrogant (that's never explicitly stated, but it's implied). Marimo and Yuuko sit Takeru down and explain to him that even though he felt that he had no agency in the situation, it was his responsibility to determine who he'd reject.  Ultimately, because he drug it out for so long, neither of the girls could handle it and he almost lost them both. If he tried to save them both, he'll have no one.  But if he were to choose just one, he could repair his relationship with her. If he had accepted his responsibility and rejected one of them sooner, everyone would have been spared a lot of stress.

In Alternative (it's a little fuzzy because it's been 2-3 years since I read it), Takeru is confronted with the idea that he might need to let people die to further humanity's cause. The whole time, Takeru struggles with trying to be more decisive and less wishy-washy. The deaths of his squad double as an exaggerated metaphor for them being rejected. Perhaps there was a more efficient way to handle it, but because of Takeru's tendency to be "nice" to everyone, he couldn't make the decisions that needed to be made, meaning everyone got backed into a situation that was much tougher than it needed to be.  This flaw of Takeru also highlights the other message of needing to rely on the people around you, and not trying to shoulder the burden by yourself, which is what Meiya was doing at the end of Extra.

  Reveal hidden contents

That's just their relationship. They're equals. Equal rights, equal lefts. It really goes to show that Takeru, at the beginning of Extra, doesn't see Sumika as a girl at all. He gropes her chest in the beginning and doesn't think anything of it at all.  Later when other girls get close to him, he makes internal comments such as "They're touching me", as he's conscious of them.  But he can touch Sumika's without a second thought, and without lingering on it because he doesn't see them as arousing at all - they just happen to be attached to Sumika.  Certainly, Sumika shouldn't put up with as much bullshit as she does from him, but it seems like the only reason she does is because she fell in love with him without realizing it.

The reason he treats her better as it goes on is because he becomes more conscious of her as a girl, and he knows that that's no way to treat a girl. He flicks Meiya once or twice, but I think it's because she started to act in ways that evoked the same responses from him that Sumika did.

 

Aargh..how do I get a bb editor? Can't choose which one to quote.

Iirc my feeling was something along the lines of 'should have just fired the cannon at the BETA hivemaster asap instead of waiting around, chatting with the hivemind etc. Then some folks could've been saved when they ejected out of the hive depending on how soon medics would arrive after they are recovered', memory is hazy. Course there was that other early on sacrifice scene where the group insisted on waiting instead of assuming the folks behind them were dead like..I dunno..it was super super super obvious that they were. I played Extra recently so yes I agree with your statement on that. It just seems amazing what Sumika put up with for so long.

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Spoiler

Wasn't the larger point of the Alternative IV plan to find out more about the BETA? Killing it immediately may have prevented Meiya's death, but then they wouldn't have learned about all the BETA (or BETA superiors?) still out there. Gaining some intel on an incomprehensible enemy is more important than the lives of a few soldiers strategically. Also, the only ones still alive at that point were Meiya and the ones on board the Susanoo (IIRC. I forget when and what exactly killed the 00-Unit since my mind was too focused on Meiya at that point). Ayamine and Class Rep blew themselves up, Mikoto was electrocuted, and the Superior already had Tama's body in its grasp. 

 

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17 hours ago, oobie10 said:
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Wasn't the larger point of the Alternative IV plan to find out more about the BETA? Killing it immediately may have prevented Meiya's death, but then they wouldn't have learned about all the BETA (or BETA superiors?) still out there. Gaining some intel on an incomprehensible enemy is more important than the lives of a few soldiers strategically. Also, the only ones still alive at that point were Meiya and the ones on board the Susanoo (IIRC. I forget when and what exactly killed the 00-Unit since my mind was too focused on Meiya at that point). Ayamine and Class Rep blew themselves up, Mikoto was electrocuted, and the Superior already had Tama's body in its grasp. 

 

I was under the impression by the time the end happened that they already knew enough about the BETA and that the mission was primarily to blow up BETA superior...maybe memory is wrong or I misunderstood the fan translation...I know they were trying to find out more information prior to that. iirc didn't Sumika and the Professor know what was going to happen on their success at Kashgar and already had a pretty good understanding of how the hives worked from experiments of Sumika and the shut down reactor? What I remember from the translation was that Sumika depends on the BETA to recharge herself so she basically committed suicide. Whenever Sumika recharges herself she leaks information to the BETA. They figured that out which was why they wanted to destroy the main hive since information goes from smaller hives to main hive and them to each other hive for distribution. Sumika was teaching the BETA tactics by recharging herself.

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On 8/1/2016 at 10:53 PM, David said:

@derek58 Pretty sure that scene was added n the all ages or windows 7 release. It played out as a short cutscene (sprites, not anime) while blasting the old alternate op music.

Awwwww shit, I'm even more excited for Alt now! :D

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Ignore this post, the formating somehow replaced my text with a quote

 

Edited by Tits_Mcgruff

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