Euphoric

Changes to OST / Music licensing problems

71 posts in this topic

Reading  https://aaltomies.wordpress.com/2016/07/18/lets-talk-about-muv-luvs-changes/ made me really uneasy.

Simply said, I didn't pay over $400 for Degica / ixtl to destroy the most iconic pieces of the soundtrack. I understand that there is possibility of lawsuits against distributors. But I wouldn't consider just removing them to be a good service to people who paid for it, expecting to get good product out of it. You should have really used some of that HUGE lump of money to at least talk with original distributors and ask them if this is really a problem. The songs are not exact copies. They might not have problems with it.

There is also problem of this not being seen from the start. Kickstarter backers were not warned of these possible cuts. I would expect some kind of explanation or apology from Degica about this oversight.

Edited by Euphoric

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Do you seriously think the Muv Luv team has the resources to spend negotiating for a single BGM? Just because the kickstarter made a large sum of money doesn't mean they're swimming in funds to throw around, a huge chunk of the money made is already going back to the backers in physical rewards. I don't know why people keep bringing up this issue, there's a risk of a lawsuit and it's honestly trivial to potentially delay the game and put extra work on the team for A SINGLE TRACK. Stop beating a dead horse, if it bothers you that much then go purchase the rights for the song yourself.

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Hi Euphoric,

Thank you for the feedback. We did promise we're bringing new songs for the game.

"Drama Bomb" may not be pleasing for everyone as a replacement for Warudakumi, but "A Matter of Pride" is pretty good, isn't it?

Or did you not prefer having the new soundtrack at all?

Nonetheless, we will confirm the OSTs in question and suggest not to replace anything at all.

Spoiler

During the stretch goal proposal, we suggested to them to imagine they're making OSTs for an upcoming... anime adaptation.

Emphasis on "imagine".

Also, around 50% of our funding are actually going to production, shipping, and inventory maintenance. We are really walking on thin ice as we tread through Muv-Luv Alternative's localization. If the fanbase will be this merciless to us, then surely everyone's efforts will fall apart.

We are doing our best here. There were many worse issues we managed to prevent before release (which took months, weeks to reach an agreement from all sides), and we do apologize for everything that seemed like we've overlooked. Again, we will try to listen to everyone's feedback, and address them to the developers.

We hope for everyone's patience on the matter and a little bit of mercy will do... That's all we're asking for.

Again, thank you for the feedback, and for backing our Kickstarter campaign : )

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What is it with this Team being so unprofessional? So passive aggressive?

 

The Kickstarter raised 1M over the funding you needed just to localize the game. Yes I realize there were rewards and whatnot included in that...but still, you hold the title for one of the MOST funded KS Campaigns of all time, let alone for a VN...and yet you guys keep acting CONSTANTLY like you have no money to do anything but the most bare-bones of products. If this was the case, the Kickstarter goal should've been higher or something.

Edited by Mkilbride

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1 hour ago, Discalibur said:

there's a risk of a lawsuit

This is what I mean. There is A RISK. There is also possibility the original distributors would be fine with it for whatever reason. They can be like "yeah, it sounds same, but it is actually different, so we won't push lawsuit".

I can (grudgingly) accept something along the lines "We communicated with original owner and found out it would take too much money and resources to license the song". I won't accept them not being sure if this will actually result in a lawsuit. I cannot accept them doing such drastic change based solely on fear.

19 minutes ago, Mkilbride said:

...

I agree with this one. I don't believe I'm getting my money's worth from the Kickstarter. But I'm fine with that, because I like the series and wish others to enjoy it too. But I'm starting to have doubts, seeing the changes that are being made.

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24 minutes ago, Mkilbride said:

What is it with this Team being so unprofessional? So passive aggressive?

 

The Kickstarter raised 1M over the funding you needed just to localize the game. Yes I realize there were rewards and whatnot included in that...but still, you hold the title for one of the MOST funded KS Campaigns of all time, let alone for a VN...and yet you guys keep acting CONSTANTLY like you have no money to do anything but the most bare-bones of products. If this was the case, the Kickstarter goal should've been higher or something.

Quite frankly Mkilbride you already have a reputation of bringing negativity to the Steam forums so I'd appreciate it if you kept it off these forums. Especially with your accusations of our forum admins. I'm speaking for myself, but this community is much better off without these recent toxic attitudes. If you have any complaints, present them with due respect as the people who staff this community are incredibly dedicated individuals and fans of the series, and quite honestly shouldn't be spending any time responding to this level of immaturity.

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59 minutes ago, Mkilbride said:

The Kickstarter raised 1M over the funding you needed just to localize the game. Yes I realize there were rewards and whatnot included in that...but still, you hold the title for one of the MOST funded KS Campaigns of all time, let alone for a VN...and yet you guys keep acting CONSTANTLY like you have no money to do anything but the most bare-bones of products. If this was the case, the Kickstarter goal should've been higher or something.

 The Muv-Luv KS barely made it to the top 100 most funded campaign within the video game category alone when it was funded.  It could be argued that they hold the title for:

     Most assortment of physical rewards for a VN KS

     Most generous with rewards for a VN KS (free figma, codex, and/or digital vita or android free of charge for everyone above a certain tier)

     Most responsive for a VN KS

 

 

Edited by Jawer
misread some things mikibride said

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To Degica/Age:  I wouldn't worry too much..  It's a vocal minority complaining, and it's the same vocal minority that complains about every VN it seems.  Most of us have our preferences, but are willing to accept the inevitable issues that come with localizing a product, be they legal issues, platform issues or what have you.  

28 minutes ago, Euphoric said:

This is what I mean. There is A RISK. There is also possibility the original distributors would be fine with it for whatever reason. They can be like "yeah, it sounds same, but it is actually different, so we won't push lawsuit".

And if they do sue, that's it.  No more Muv-Luv in the west, and maybe no more Degica at all.  Do you really think that a visual novel developer and a localization company can stand toe to toe with Ricky Martin and the RIAA in a laywer showdown?  

 

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Alright, let's present it bluntly this way :

If they get sued, your hard earned cash which went into investing into this project goes down the drain and you can kiss future releases goodbye.

How does this sound ?

 

Businesses are involved and they each have their own stakes in this. If rule enforcement comes from the top, there isn't much you can do but comply.

Consider us lucky that we're able to give feedback on the product we received.

Consider us lucky that Degica is taking steps to relay said feedback for us and present evidence to other parties involved at all.

Consider us lucky that ixtl and âge are actually looking at it.

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3 minutes ago, Scars Unseen said:

To Degica/Age:  I wouldn't worry too much..  It's a vocal minority complaining, and it's the same vocal minority that complains about every VN it seems.  Most of us have our preferences, but are willing to accept the inevitable issues that come with localizing a product, be they legal issues, platform issues or what have you.  

And if they do sue, that's it.  No more Muv-Luv in the west, and maybe no more Degica at all.  Do you really think that a visual novel developer and a localization company can stand toe to toe with Ricky Martin and the RIAA in a laywer showdown?  

 

You completely missed the point. I'm not saying to use the song and risk lawsuit. I'm saying they should do THE MINIMUM of research/communication. If they call/mail Ricky Martin's lawyers and they say "Yeah, will will push lawsuit if you use that song.", then I will fully understand them not using the song. But I will not accept them not using the song just because there is RISK and FEAR of lawsuit.

And this is not even that expensive. It takes total of 10 minutes to write up an email to interested parties and then maybe few hours of back-and-forth mail/phone communication to straighten things up.

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We did actually ask ixtl about it.

Gab specifically asked:

"Also, the soundtrack 'Scandal' (the one like a parody of the Ricky Martin song) seems to have been totally replaced by a new soundtrack, can we confirm if this was supposed to be deliberate? While new songs are good, there will be fans who miss the old ones too (eg me ;_;)"

Evan:

"i think we should at least ask if there’s a reason why the song “Scandal!” isn’t being included though. i imagine for plagiarism concerns, but i think some people are gonna complain about it not being included, and the new song isn’t even in the same genre. it’s the first thing about the new version i’m kinda worried might be perceived as a negative change"

Our communications and assistant manager, Nicolas said:

"They removed Scandal because it has license troubles in Japan too." (did not elaborate further since he was answering a long list of questions from the tl team)

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7 minutes ago, Euphoric said:

You completely missed the point. I'm not saying to use the song and risk lawsuit. I'm saying they should do THE MINIMUM of research/communication. If they call/mail Ricky Martin's lawyers and they say "Yeah, will will push lawsuit if you use that song.", then I will fully understand them not using the song. But I will not accept them not using the song just because there is RISK and FEAR of lawsuit.

And this is not even that expensive. It takes total of 10 minutes to write up an email to interested parties and then maybe few hours of back-and-forth mail/phone communication to straighten things up.

Then by all means contact them yourself.

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7 minutes ago, Euphoric said:

You completely missed the point. I'm not saying to use the song and risk lawsuit. I'm saying they should do THE MINIMUM of research/communication. If they call/mail Ricky Martin's lawyers and they say "Yeah, will will push lawsuit if you use that song.", then I will fully understand them not using the song. But I will not accept them not using the song just because there is RISK and FEAR of lawsuit.

And this is not even that expensive. It takes total of 10 minutes to write up an email to interested parties and then maybe few hours of back-and-forth mail/phone communication to straighten things up.

It'd take more than that.  Lawyers can say whatever they want, but for it to binding there would have to be a written and signed agreement between Degica and RM, which costs time and money even if they agreed without licensing fees, and that's even if RM actually owns the rights to that song in the first place.  He didn't write it, so it's entirely possible that the song is owned by Columbia, and good luck getting permission from them.

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6 minutes ago, Scars Unseen said:

It'd take more than that.  Lawyers can say whatever they want, but for it to binding there would have to be a written and signed agreement between Degica and RM, which costs time and money even if they agreed without licensing fees, and that's even if RM actually owns the rights to that song in the first place.  He didn't write it, so it's entirely possible that the song is owned by Columbia, and good luck getting permission from them.

Once again, you misunderstand. I'm not saying attempting to get rights. First step in this kind of situation is to agree that there is a problem. If their lawyers say "There is high chance will will push lawsuit", then Degica can stop talking to them and just remove the song. No need for agreements or licensing fees. Only if Degica decided the song is too important to be left out would they invest money and time to license it.

Yeah, we can be cynical and say their lawyers will say that at anything that even reminds them of the original song. But that is still better than basing their decisions on uncertainity.

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10 minutes ago, Euphoric said:

Once again, you misunderstand. I'm not saying attempting to get rights. First step in this kind of situation is to agree that there is a problem. If their lawyers say "There is high chance will will push lawsuit", then Degica can stop talking to them and just remove the song. No need for agreements or licensing fees. Only if Degica decided the song is too important to be left out would they invest money and time to license it.

Yeah, we can be cynical and say their lawyers will say that at anything that even reminds them of the original song. But that is still better than basing their decisions on uncertainity.

Without a signed agreement, that's useless.  Let's take a hypothetical scenario.  Let's say that RM/Columbia's lawyers look at Muv-Luv and give it the okay simply because they don't think the money they'd get from a lawsuit would be worth the trouble.  They don't necessarily say that in their reply, but that's their reasoning.  Now let's say that Muv-Luv becomes quite popular and sells well.  Said lawyers might take another look at it and decide that a highly successful property that uses an infringing song is worth going after.  Now Degica has lost all that money they earned because they put a song that they knew was infringing into the visual novel and didn't take the precaution of getting a signed arrangement with the music studio, who almost certainly would not do any such thing for free if at all.

 

You don't put yourself out there with infringing work without a licensing agreement.  That's stupid.  That's fan mod grade fingers in the ears stupid. 

Edited by Scars Unseen

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1 minute ago, Scars Unseen said:

Without a signed agreement, that's useless.  Let's take a hypothetical scenario.  Let's say that RM/Columbia's lawyers look at Muv-Luv and give it the okay simply because they don't think the money they'd get from a lawsuit would be worth the trouble.  They don't necessarily say that in their replay, but that's their reasoning.  Now let's say that Muv-Luv becomes quite popular and sells well.  Said lawyers might take another look at it and decide that a highly successful property that uses an infringing song is worth going after.  Now Degica has lost all that money they earned because they put a song that they knew was infringing into the visual novel and didn't take the precaution of getting a signed arrangement with the music studio, who almost certainly would not do any such thing for free if at all.

 

You don't put yourself out there with infringing work without a licensing agreement.  That's stupid.  That's fan mod grade fingers in the ears stupid. 

I might sound like broken record, but you don't understand what I'm saying.

If their lawyers won't see much problem in Degica using the song, then getting the agreement might be easier and cheaper. Then it becomes cost/gain compromise. And if it gets popular later on, tough luck for them, unless the agreement included a clause for that.


Basically, I would expect Degica / ixtl to do these steps:

  1. How hard or expensive would it be to get a license. This is primarily simple communication with original owner/distributor. No need for money here.
  2. How important the song is. Is it just filler or is it important piece to set the mood of the scene.
  3. Is there suitable replacement?
  4. Do one of the following:
    1. If the license is easy/cheap and song important. Get licensing fees / usage agreement.
    2. If the license is expensive / hard and suitable replacement song exists, use that one.
    3. All possible things in between.

What I'm saying is that I'm fine with any of their decision as long as they have good answers to 1,2 and 3. But I'm not fine with them making decision without fully knowing if their song will be actual problem.

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Then it seems there's no point in us further discussing this.  Because given the RIAA's track record, I feel that what you are asking is wholly unreasonable, and I feel that doing any of that when Degica already knows that the track is infringing is a complete waste of time and money.  I'd rather they fight battles that could actually be worth the effort, like patching the engine to allow for 4:3 ratio CG display.

 

 

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We already forwarded a message to the developers asking if we will be removing or replacing any of the OSTs from Alternative.
I think it would be best for everyone to wait until we hear from them.

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3 hours ago, Euphoric said:

But I wouldn't consider just removing them to be a good service to people who paid for it, expecting to get good product out of it.

Did you not get a good product out of it? Is it buggy, it crashing on you? Is the script going haywire or the like? While Warudakumi is a neat song, giving it importance to the point of making it a bad product is hyperbole as hell.

Also reminder that you do not buy anything through Kickstarter. You are funding someone's vision, backing them up to see through whatever they intend to do.

Quote

There is also problem of this not being seen from the start.

Don't be stupid here. Anyone with even slightest ability in media literacy already knew all the homage songs are under a threat of being axed. I'm not willing to amuse how much you've been in contact with fandom, but even in Japan the fans have wondered how long it'll take for these songs to take a hit. If one song needs to be cut in order to keep lawsuit hounds out, then so be it. I don't need to remind you that you haven't seen Metal Gear Solid's theme after the controversy with The Winter Road was brought up, and that's not a secular example either.

Let's be fair, it's a thing that should have been brought up earlier, yes, and it's a good thing that Degica's ML team is going back to ixtl with all the feedback. But again, let's be fair, you funded bringing ML over and âge/ixtl will do whatever changes they see necessary to realize that without your approval, which largely weights nothing in the face of plagiarism accusations and copyright infringing.

 

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1 hour ago, Euphoric said:

You completely missed the point. I'm not saying to use the song and risk lawsuit. I'm saying they should do THE MINIMUM of research/communication. If they call/mail Ricky Martin's lawyers and they say "Yeah, will will push lawsuit if you use that song.", then I will fully understand them not using the song. But I will not accept them not using the song just because there is RISK and FEAR of lawsuit.

And this is not even that expensive. It takes total of 10 minutes to write up an email to interested parties and then maybe few hours of back-and-forth mail/phone communication to straighten things up.

I'm not sure why you would assume they didn't. I'd imagine one of the first parts of licensing would be to go through the list, see who they would need to contact for licenses, then go contact them. Then if anything seems likely for infringement, go contact additional parties as needed, and hopefully hammer out a deal. The only reasons not to reach out would be because it's blatantly infringement, and you're just hoping to sneak under the radar, or you're already in the gray area, so what's one more risk.

Since the song is cut, to me that implies that they already know it's not worth including. If the "RISK and FEAR of lawsuit" is why they cut the song, that probably means they reached out, got a negative response, and decided the costs outweighed the benefits. The only thing I could reasonably fault Degica for is not saying something beforehand in one of their updates that "XYZ have been changed for ABC reasons," for the express purpose of dealing with these kinds of complaints earlier. 

 

1 hour ago, Euphoric said:

Basically, I would expect Degica / ixtl to do these steps:

  1. How hard or expensive would it be to get a license. This is primarily simple communication with original owner/distributor. No need for money here.
  2. How important the song is. Is it just filler or is it important piece to set the mood of the scene.
  3. Is there suitable replacement?
  4. Do one of the following:
    1. If the license is easy/cheap and song important. Get licensing fees / usage agreement.
    2. If the license is expensive / hard and suitable replacement song exists, use that one.
    3. All possible things in between.

What I'm saying is that I'm fine with any of their decision as long as they have good answers to 1,2 and 3. But I'm not fine with them making decision without fully knowing if their song will be actual problem.

Again, I don't understand why you would assume they didn't. I generally assume companies w/o a track record of incompetence are, in fact, competent. There are many examples of outrage from "they changed it, now it sucks." I doubt they would willingly piss off the old fans by removing a(n obviously memorable) song for no logical reason. Are you asking them for a breakdown on what a potential deal would cost? Make a yes/no twitter poll for "We want to include X, but it would cost Y to get the proper deals in place. Is it worth it?" If there are business reasons behind a decision, I'm not gonna get up in arms for every little change. Especially for a song that's obviously at risk of a lawsuit.

Be honest, man. If they get to 3, then there's always going to be someone who says "the replacement is awful, gimme back the old song NOW." Too many hardliners who think everything has to be exactly as it was on their first experience. Maybe you specifically would be fine in step 4 with some decision besides (1), but there's a vocal crowd who will protest any decision besides (1) that always seem to pop up, regardless of the feasibility of that choice. 

Since the song was cut, it was likely: 

1) too expensive or too difficult to work out a deal.

2) It's a very fitting song, yes, but I'd wager that much of the importance of the song was based on its resemblance to a certain other song, which is kinda the issue in the first place. 

3) Regardless of how replaceable the song is, a deal won't be made, so we gotta figure something out. *Prepare for all the whining*

4) License too expensive/hard, we think these are suitable replacements, but people are going to complain anyway. 

 

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4 hours ago, Scars Unseen said:

To Degica/Age:  I wouldn't worry too much..  It's a vocal minority complaining, and it's the same vocal minority that complains about every VN it seems.  Most of us have our preferences, but are willing to accept the inevitable issues that come with localizing a product, be they legal issues, platform issues or what have you.  

And if they do sue, that's it.  No more Muv-Luv in the west, and maybe no more Degica at all.  Do you really think that a visual novel developer and a localization company can stand toe to toe with Ricky Martin and the RIAA in a laywer showdown?  

 

Yeah. Most of us are pretty damn happy with everything. There will always be a vocal minority who want more... and then more. ANd heaven forbid something has to be changed, even if the reason makes sense.

Edited by dongaro
rewording

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14 minutes ago, dongaro said:

Yeah. Most of us are pretty damn happy with everything. There will always be a vocal minority who want more... and then more. ANd heaven forbid something has to be changed, even if the reason makes sense.

I would like to think that most of us are happy with almost everything with the release. The thing is with how much we care about Muv Luv we might put everything under a microscope.. but even then, if you have seen my list that I have made that is as far as I'm aware almost complete list of the issues of the release it wasn't all that long. 

Honestly the OST issue doesn't even bug me and I am actually starting to really like the new OST.... and I'll stop here with that as I don't want to derail the thread ;)

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14 minutes ago, Randomacts said:

I would like to think that most of us are happy with almost everything with the release. The thing is with how much we care about Muv Luv we might put everything under a microscope.. but even then, if you have seen my list that I have made that is as far as I'm aware almost complete list of the issues of the release it wasn't all that long. 

Honestly the OST issue doesn't even bug me and I am actually starting to really like the new OST.... and I'll stop here with that as I don't want to derail the thread ;)

I saw your list and rather agreed with it. It was well thought out and I agreed with all of the points (both the pluses and minuses of the new port). my comment was in regards to the song, and other songs that may also need to be changed.

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4 hours ago, Randomacts said:

The thing is with how much we care about Muv Luv we might put everything under a microscope..

Regarding the guys focusing on Warudakumi this couldn't be closer to the truth. Seriously though I don't get it, fighting something like this would be like next to suicide for a small company like Degica. It's just not worth it.

4 hours ago, Randomacts said:

Honestly the OST issue doesn't even bug me and I am actually starting to really like the new OST....

In all literal honesty ever since Warudakumi was synced with livin la vida loca i have been ruined on this pastiche and feel like slamming my head in a refrigerator door ever since even though i have always known. So on the bright side my sanity thanks this unfortunate change even though i have had a love hate relationship with this pastiche. 9_9

Overall the new ost just plays too often when something else could easily replace it in some aeas.                                    

11 hours ago, The Muv-Luv Team said:

"Drama Bomb" may not be pleasing for everyone as a replacement for Warudakumi, but "A Matter of Pride" is pretty good, isn't it?

Or did you not prefer having the new soundtrack at all.

It sounds a lot like Sawano, it's ironic and a bit funny since me and my friend joke about how we could improve Muv-Luv by turning more heads by timing some epic moment with this composer.

But yes, and even more so after reading your spoiler.xD This explains that special feeling i was getting when i first heard this track, i seriously love you guy's for throwing that out there. My only complaint is it's not long enough and shouldn't fade otherwise it would be perfect.

 

 

 

9 hours ago, Jawer said:

 The Muv-Luv KS barely made it to the top 100 most funded campaign within the video game category alone when it was funded.  It could be argued that they hold the title for:

     Most assortment of physical rewards for a VN KS

     Most generous with rewards for a VN KS (free figma, codex, and/or digital vita or android free of charge for everyone above a certain tier)

     Most responsive for a VN KS

^ This.

11 hours ago, The Muv-Luv Team said:

If the fanbase will be this merciless to us, then surely everyone's efforts will fall apart.

11 hours ago, The Muv-Luv Team said:

We hope for everyone's patience on the matter and a little bit of mercy will do... That's all we're asking for.

I think we space that it will effect the overall moral and clearly there's a lot more important issues at hand that need to be prioritized. The community as well as Degica values the best and wants the best experience possible and quite frankly i consider us one and the same. That being said to me this is the most important as i'm sure it is for most of the fans.

Either way you're not alone in this fight and something the community and especially myself have been use to for years now is damage control and free advertisement. Especially during Schwarzesmarkens airing. :D

Edited by StormVanguard

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10 hours ago, Klashvorn said:

Alright, let's present it bluntly this way :

If they get sued, your hard earned cash which went into investing into this project goes down the drain and you can kiss future releases goodbye.

How does this sound ?

 

Businesses are involved and they each have their own stakes in this. If rule enforcement comes from the top, there isn't much you can do but comply.

Consider us lucky that we're able to give feedback on the product we received.

Consider us lucky that Degica is taking steps to relay said feedback for us and present evidence to other parties involved at all.

Consider us lucky that ixtl and âge are actually looking at it.

This is a blatant lie. It is the 92nd highest crowd-funded project of ALL TIME. Not just on KS.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_highest_funded_crowdfunding_projects

https://www.kickstarter.com/discover/advanced?category_id=35&woe_id=0&sort=most_funded&seed=2448103&page=2

92nd. That's including every type of crowd-funding available. In the video game section...it's the 26th most funded. Doesn't sound like "Barely" to me.  This isn't including their paypal totals, either.  Stop acting like this game just barely made it. If they had only hit their initial goal, it'd still be coming to the West. They have backer rewards to ship out, this is true, but at the same time, all of it was sold at a profit. This game had already been made. They weren't re-creating the entire game over again, and using a text comparison machine, you can see the fan translation and the Official translation have a 94.7% likeness rating.  So it's not like they did a massive overhaul, either. They did touch it up and polish it, but seriously. Muv Luv is one of my favorite VNS ever, and I just want to see the best possible version available legally in the West. I know the reasons for why Songs are being removed, but I am sick of the developers posting as if we're "Lucky" it's coming at all, despite having one of the highest crowd-funded projects in HISTORY.  For a Western release. Not a new game.  I'd love see the original cost for making Muv Luv & Alternative. I bet it was less than the KS made. As the game overall has few backrounds / CGS.  Voice acting can cost, but at the time they were made, alot of these VAS were nobody. They're the most crowd-funded VN of all time on KS right now - by a good margin. Only F/SN I think, could break their record, if that ever happened.(Unlikely)

 

http://www.siliconera.com/2016/02/03/muv-luv-kickstarters-extra-money-used-game-translations/

 

I'm not trolling or being aggressive. I just want an open, and balanced dialogue, with facts, not fancy. If they did not make enough money on the Kickstarter to deliver the product they promised, then they should've said so. They above Muv Luv Team member said that their efforts may fall apart and the game may not be delivered, because us as a fanbase are "too picky", when all anyone is asking for is the original product, released all the way back in 2003,  Minus the songs they can't legally get the rights to - and that's fine.  However, we're lacking options for the game we had in the 2003 version, we're dealing with cropped images, and being told 4:3 support would be too difficult...despite the original game supporting it.  You know what, fine, I get it, they ported the PS3 one. So what about Controller support, then? The PS3 version had that? Why can't PC? Too much work, they say. Too much effort. Then they again threaten that the project "may not happen", as fans are "Too harsh / critical", despite merely -asking- for stuff that they shouldn't have to in ANY professional release. This is not a Indie release, this is not some no-name studio, and it's not a fan project. A company is producing this and they should accord themselves as such, as employees of said company and treat the community as customers, not as cash bags.  No one here has demanded ANYTHING. They've merely ASKED ABOUT. Yet they come in and start attacking us like we're being unreasonable for MERELY ASKING.   When we ask why something can't be done, we get vague, politician like answers.  All people want is honest answers and to be treated like the customers they are, not beggars. We paid for a product, treat us as such.

 

 

Edited by Mkilbride

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