Connor Krammer

Muv-Luv Feedback

489 posts in this topic

That's not my video. But I hear it on my own copy from Steam. The Non-Steam release does not have it. No other game has this audio pop :P

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Just now, Mkilbride said:

That's not my video. But I hear it on my own copy from Steam. The Non-Steam release does not have it. No other game has this audio pop :P

Still, we had to rule out hardware issues. And we have now done so to confirm that it is real.

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1 minute ago, Mkilbride said:

That's not my video. But I hear it on my own copy from Steam. The Non-Steam release does not have it. No other game has this audio pop :P

I can confirm this is an issue.

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1 hour ago, Mkilbride said:

In the intro:

His mom calls in to Sumika. Why isn't this in the new release? Just curious.

I assume you meant this scene? It's there in the current release.

 

(Edited: I just replayed the VN and video again. Not sure which part you mentioned as missing.)

20160719153143_1.jpg

Edited by Svenhent

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3 hours ago, David said:

. eating.jpgeating.jpgeating.jpgeating.jpg

Mmm~ Suddely i'm in the mood for hamburger.

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Thanks for the details and confirmation on the audio pop issue. We'll look into it.

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6 hours ago, evan said:

I just gave an example of an entire scene with Kyozuka that does not appear in the original whatsoever.

Occurs on November 3rd, Muv-Luv Unlimited.
starting from: 
...Huh?
【Chizuru】「Oh, Shirogane...」
【Takeru】「...Where's everyone else?」
【Chizuru】「Not here, apparently.」

There are 187 lines of new content, not replacing anything else.

Are you kidding? Who doesn't like the lunch lady! She even won the birthday results once. And I was actually looking around Extra to see if there was any signs of Kyozuka. I feel like a couple of things have been new actually but i totally spaced this one and i'm looking forward to hitting November 3rd again.

6 hours ago, evan said:

If you feel the new version fails to live up to your expectations and you'd like a refund on your pledge or Steam purchase, I'd be happy to provide it personally. E-mail me at enjoievan@gmail.com if you're interested.

Quite frankly Evan i rather rip off my left nut and eat it. We have a good thing going here and i would hate to see the community ruin that. Ixtl makes us feel conflicted but the love and support Degica continues to give makes me feel like every penny was worth it. We want to see the success of Muv-Luv just as much as Degica does so we can make pipe dreams become reality and in the end that's really all that matters.

6 hours ago, evan said:

List of things new in official version as opposed to fan translation:

Muv-Luv:

  • New all-ages scenes appearing in Eng. for the first time w/new lines and new CGs.
  • Animated mouths and eyes on character sprites
  • Additional scenes added to all versions of UL post-initial release that give further background on the world (e.g. scene explaining Kyozuka's backstory)
  • In-Engine subtitles for anime cutscene and UL ending (as opposed to a .txt file opening on top of the game)
  • Ability to play in both Japanese and English (including images)
  • Autosave functionality, quick suspend for closing and re-opening the application
  • Higher-res sprites and backgrounds
  • Better and more accurate translation (not to toot my own horn, but regardless of your personal preference in localization direction, in terms of translation accuracy, this new release is objectively superior)
  • 2 brand new songs by Schwarzesmarken composer Evan Call (replacing one old one, so I recognize some won't appreciate this)
  • Tablet support w/gestures
  • Jukebox, Theater modes, and a Clear List w/Completion Rate
  • Steam achievements, badges, trading cards, emoticons
  • New ED songs for individual girls' Extra ends & OPs

Muv-Luv Alternative:

  • BRAND new CGs funded by the Kickstarter
  • BRAND new English voice acting (in addition to option for hilarious old Engrish VA)
  • New Takeru VA in Primary Objective and other scenes (spectacular, if you have the chance to hear this in the PS3 version, it's unreal. so good.)
  • Plenty more yet to be announced

+ all of the same functional updates/features ML had that apply.

This is just what I can think of off the top of my head. If I remember something else, I'll follow up.

The autoread function is actually really nice now having the ability to skip something while autoread stays up.                         

I did not know the songs were a thing since i only did one play through in the w7 version i'm greatly looking forward to this.

Yeah the tablet support and the language was actually really cool i'm glad to see these were included and was highly amusing seeing AGE mess around with this on stream.

Just saying but i also like the Chibi's that were added to the menu/options it really adds to the experience.                             

The funny thing is not even Sekkai project thought to do the steam cards/emoticons with Clannad even though it's completely fitting and could have benefited them greatly.

Everyone talks about selling their cards but personally i'm just interested in collecting badges for backgrounds/emoticons. Hirei did the art for the emoticons right? They're pretty great.

Quite honestly Scandal isn't even worth the battle, it was great but i didn't lose sleep over it when the Gunbuster/SST pastiche are still present which is much more important. The second ost really is worth mentioning and what's cool about it is it really does remind me of something you would hear in the anime adaptation.

6 hours ago, evan said:
  • Better and more accurate translation (not to toot my own horn, but regardless of your personal preference in localization direction, in terms of translation accuracy, this new release is objectively superior)

Change "Dude" to Man and "blergh" to Ubaa and i will toot your horn for you.

Personally the reason the later bothers me is i consider it to be like ignoring the distinct differences between the laughs in one piece such as "Zehahaha" or " Fosfosfos" http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/Laughter_Style                                                  

Which i think personally adds greatly to the enjoyment. I have issues with Ayamine which if i was to be honest there's things i like and don't like about her but otherwise you definitely out done yourself and i have always felt specifically the Amaterasu script for Extra lacked any ambition.

More specifically i absolutely love what you've done with Meiya and she more feels up to par with Amaterasu's script in Alternative. And there's something more respectable about class-rep i want to say.

I would say my main gripe is i feel the westernization of the dialogue is contradicting to the japanese nationalism in Unlimited/Alternative which i feel is problematic when japan is under Imperial rule and sends mixed messages when you have a japanese cast of characters on top of this. I have other reasons for this but i will stop there.

For a cast like Total Eclipse however would fit westernization and i would actually welcome this approach.

Edited by StormVanguard

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7 hours ago, evan said:

You misunderstand. He has additional VA, not replacing the old VA.

I wish replacing his Voice acting were an stretch goal...

 

 

Did someone already mentioned the lack of full-screen setting? This new version look blurry in full-screen and have black bars. The W7 of alt have setting to remove the blur (keep res at fullscreen) or remove the black bars.
Yeah, the old DVD version don't have them, but it doesn't looks blurry on full-screen.

Edited by FaceEater
be more clear

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3 minutes ago, FaceEater said:

I wish replacing the Voice acting were an stretch goal...

I will chomp you man. I will do it. I will do it so hard.

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So just a quick bit of positive feedback on the translation.  Of course the entire translation reads wonderfully, so thanks to the team for that.  But in particular, I'm really gratified that names are written in the same way that they are spoke:  family name first.  It's a minor thing, but it always bothers me when localizations reverse the name order just because that's how western names are read.  

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3 minutes ago, Scars Unseen said:

family name first.  It's a minor thing, but it always bothers me when localizations reverse the name order just because that's how western names are read.  

I spaced this and that is quite note worthy actually and something that can greatly annoy me.

Thank you for pointing this out.

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7 hours ago, StormVanguard said:

"Mmmm" and "munch munch" was clearly Takeru.

I was asked to come in and address this concern. This is not an editing error:

#(0341250)[1238],"【戎】「はい、あ~んしてくださいねぇ~」",
#(0341260)[1239],"【戎】 ――むぎゅう~~~",
#(0341270)[1242],"【巴】「はいはい、口に入れたら、あむあむするっ!」",
#(0341280)[1243],"【巴】 ――はぐはぐ",
【Ebisu】「Okay, now open wiiide!」
【Ebisu】 ──Mmmm〜!
【Tomoe】「That's the way, now chew it all up!」
【Tomoe】 ──*munch* *munch*

The Japanese here clearly indicates that these lines are attributed to Ebisu and Tomoe. We'll take a look into this and let ixtl know if it's blatantly wrong.

In regards to "dude" and the sfx - I won't be debating localization direction here, as I know that plenty of people will not appreciate some aspects of the direction we've chosen. I stand behind every one of my decisions, but your feedback has been noted. As I said in that bullet point, though, I was in this instance referring to the accuracy of the lines, not slang/verbal flairs.

Thank you for your feedback, and overall positive sentiment. Sorry again about those couple things we disagree on.

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I believe that blocking Unlimited until the player has read Sumika and Meiyas route is essential to de feel of the novel. 

The first time I read it I didn't even know of the existence of Unlimited, so I finished reading Meiyas route and kept reading others route until, to my surprise the game went to the menu and the image changed from high school students to cadets/soldiers... and Sumika was missing, huh, weird. Then the option to read Unlimited appeared and I was blown away to find all this world to discover. 

I strongly recommend to put it back on the Steam version since I feel it is a core feature of the story.

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1 hour ago, Maperius said:

I believe that blocking Unlimited until the player has read Sumika and Meiyas route is essential to de feel of the novel. 

The first time I read it I didn't even know of the existence of Unlimited, so I finished reading Meiyas route and kept reading others route until, to my surprise the game went to the menu and the image changed from high school students to cadets/soldiers... and Sumika was missing, huh, weird. Then the option to read Unlimited appeared and I was blown away to find all this world to discover. 

I strongly recommend to put it back on the Steam version since I feel it is a core feature of the story.

We are ABSOLUTELY looking for feedback in this regard. PLEASE, if you feel strongly about this, make your voices heard so we can provide the feedback data to the rest of the team and suggest implementing this change.

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@evan Thank you for being so understanding Evan and appreciative on the feedback i really appreciate it. I suppose the only reason i'm so vocal on it is i plan on supporting Muv-Luv for years to come buying all fandiscs/side stories that get released the same goes for KGN which i'm excited about and every series tied to the same universe. I can come to terms with Westernization and understand the reasoning overall just i hope even the littlest of something can come from this.

I can definitely appreciate the accuracy Evan and my hats off to you on your hard work here it really shows.

11 minutes ago, evan said:

The Japanese here clearly indicates that these lines are attributed to Ebisu and Tomoe. We'll take a look into this and let ixtl know if it's blatantly wrong.

Oh my bad i completely worded that wrong.xD I was actually more leaning towards this. Thank you for looking into this.

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@StormVanguard And thank you for helping keep this community running. Without feedback from people like you, this project would be nowhere near where it stands today. I hope you truly enjoy KimiNozo when it finally comes to fruition. I truly believe it is my life's work, and I can't wait for people to read it. Please bear with us as we work through these teething issues. Thank you. Thank you.

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9 minutes ago, evan said:

We are ABSOLUTELY looking for feedback in this regard. PLEASE, if you feel strongly about this, make your voices heard so we can provide the feedback data to ixtl and suggest implementing this change.


Well in that case... i have plenty to say.:D But seriously this is good to know this is in everyone's interest.

 

 

 

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Since you're looking for feedback on the Unlimited issue, here's mine:  make it manually unlockable, but locked by default.  Maybe put it in the options menu, accompanied by a big warning that Extra is meant to be read prior to Unlimited.  Even if you leave the VN in its current state, a warning really is needed at the very least.  I've already seen one person post on the Steam forum that they were confused because they accidentally chose Unlimited to start with.  Honestly, I'd go a step further and say to make manually unlocking it a flag in an INI file rather than put in the menu where someone might flip it without understanding what they are doing, but a prominent warning really should be the minimum, as right now, the only thing that indicates that you should read Extra first is the fact that it's the top option.

Edited by Scars Unseen

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I have not played Muv Luv, but I do feel strongly about the unlockable Unlimited. Since the original game requires clearing Extra first, I think it's very clear that's how the game is meant to be played. However, I don't think it's fair to force this onto the player! Some players may not be interested in both routes, given how different they are. It's always been physically possible to read a printed book's chapters out of order, and I think visual novels deserve the same kind of freedom. The developers and publishers do have one responsibility, and that is to prevent customers from deviating from the intended order by accident.

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8 minutes ago, Scars Unseen said:

Since you're looking for feedback on the Unlimited issue, here's mine:  make it manually unlockable, but locked by default.  Maybe put it in the options menu, accompanied by a big warning that Extra is meant to be read prior to Unlimited.  Even if you leave the VN in its current state, a warning really is needed at the very least.  I've already seen one person post on the Steam forum that they were confused because they accidentally chose Unlimited to start with.  Honestly, I'd go a step further and say to make manually unlocking it a flag in an INI file rather than put in the menu where someone might flip it without understanding what they are doing, but a prominent warning really should be the minimum, as right now, the only thing that indicates that you should read Extra first is the fact that it's the top option.

I really like this method, we would be able to have the menu change to the unlimited one as well doing it that way without any issues. 

 

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One potential idea put forth early on was the following:

Have the Unlimited title screen transition hidden until a user clicks on the title, at which point a one-time warning pop-up will display, explaining the intended reading order and potential side effects of first-timers choosing to read UL first. If the user selects "OK," then the title transition is unlocked and the game functions identically to how it does currently. Alternatively, this pop-up would (ideally) not appear at all if the original clear conditions for UL were met prior to selecting it, thus "unlocking" it the original way.

Is this what you are suggesting, @Scars Unseen? Or would you prefer it to be more hidden than that, with a Quick-Unlock button hidden away in the options menu for those who want it, with the same warning dialogue?

All of your feedback is being collected, thanks!

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1 minute ago, evan said:

One potential idea put forth early on was the following:

Have the Unlimited title screen transition hidden until a user clicks on the title, at which point a one-time warning pop-up will display, explaining the intended reading order and potential side effects of first-timers choosing to read UL first. If the user selects "OK," then the title transition is unlocked and the game functions identically to how it does currently. Alternatively, this pop-up would (ideally) not appear at all if the original clear conditions for UL were met prior to selecting it, thus "unlocking" it the original way.

Is this what you are suggesting, @Scars Unseen? Or would you prefer it to be more hidden than that, with a Quick-Unlock button hidden away in the options menu for those who want it, with the same warning dialogue?

All of your feedback is being collected, thanks!

that would be perfect. 

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@Scars Unseen @Ian

Both of you make great points i'm in agreement over.

I think a disclaimer explaining why Extra is detrimental to the story followed by a warning would be a great idea so basically this would be two warnings before Extra even started.

I like the new backgrounds with Kasumi replacing Sumika but i also feel the faded tsf added to that cool factor in the background when you finally unlock Unlimited and see the tsf unfaded.

Not everyone will understand this but at least having something more that's proof of what was once there i think will be another factor into some people understanding why Muv-Luv has been so successful.

 

 

 

 

Edited by StormVanguard

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The .ini file thing is going waaaayyyyyy overkill. Have a little faith in the people that wants to read muv-luv and don't take them for idiots. A fair warning explaining the situation if no save with Meiya and Sumika's ending being reached is detected is more than enough. People aren't dumb either, and if they knowingly choose to begin with Unlimited its their choice to make, not yours.

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@evan That wouldn't be a bad way to do it, with the one downside being that the foreknowledge that Unlimited exists in the first place can take away from the kind of surprise that @Maperius experienced, though of course, new readers would have to somehow miss all the advertising for it to truly be a surprise.  Nonetheless, that would be a big improvement over the current situation.  My own suggestion was more akin to your second suggestion, with the option tucked away in the options menu.

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