Connor Krammer

Muv-Luv Feedback

489 posts in this topic

On 8/3/2016 at 11:26 PM, IAmAHero said:

Just finished all the routes in Extra and gotta say, I loved all of it! I had a ton of fun and the translation was great! I truly appreciate you guys having brought this game to the West officially and really look forward to playing Unlimited and Alternative!

  Reveal hidden contents

Didn't know if it would be considered spoilers or not but I'd rather be on the safe side and leave it here. My only concern is, and correct me if I'm wrong, after the sex scene with Marimo on her route that occurs on 12/19 shouldn't the game end there and have a piece on the clear list? Again thank you for all!

 

 

Yeah, the more I think about it the more I tend to agree with this - 
 

Spoiler

This needs a Bitten by the Mad Dog of Hakuryo achievement, a clear slot in Extra, and should probably end the story there just as Yuuko's line does in Unlimited.

Yup.  I agree with @IAmAHero.

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3 hours ago, Tits_Mcgruff said:

I've just noticed that even though I got the steam achievement for completing Meyia's route in extra, her chibi didn't unlock on the clear list. Not a big deal but I'd thought I should mention it.

edit: I also just realised that none of her CGs are appearing in the gallery 

It's funny you mention that, I've had similar--though less severe--problems with CGs failing to appear in the Gallery. Even after playing through all of Extra's various routes, for some strange reason the "Iroyo Tokomi" CG (showing Mikoto's disguise) doesn't appear in the gallery. Both the hot spring and tuna trawler CGs unlocked correctly. It's not a huge deal, but I thought that it was worth pointing out.

Edited by MarcoSnow

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On 8/3/2016 at 0:45 AM, Rashala said:

Okay since the last windows update today, the game in appears behind the taskbar not over it like most filled teen games,.  Have checked other steam games and they filled teen fine it's just muvluv itself, posted on the steam forum discussion as well and I am not the only one effected by this bug and was told to post here

 

 

I'm running Windows 10 64 bit with latest updates and have a Radeon R7 370 series card - latest drivers and OS updates are installed.  I currently only see this behavior if the game is in fullscreen mode on my secondary monitor and the game loses focus.  In this case, the taskbar "floats" over the game until focus is returned to the game.  If the game is on the primary display and the game loses focus the taskbar does not "float."

Hope that helps to track down the issue!

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On 8/3/2016 at 2:26 AM, IAmAHero said:

Just finished all the routes in Extra and gotta say, I loved all of it! I had a ton of fun and the translation was great! I truly appreciate you guys having brought this game to the West officially and really look forward to playing Unlimited and Alternative!

  Hide contents

Didn't know if it would be considered spoilers or not but I'd rather be on the safe side and leave it here. My only concern is, and correct me if I'm wrong, after the sex scene with Marimo on her route that occurs on 12/19 shouldn't the game end there and have a piece on the clear list? Again thank you for all!

 

This might have something to do with the Director's Cut Patch they have in the works. While the announcement for the launch window was still up on the official Twitter page (~September-October), it showed an image of Marimo during the scene in question, which seemed to suggest that they were going to be adding more content to it (perhaps even giving Marimo her own route?). It's hard to say at this point, since we don't have all the information about the Director's Cut Patch yet.

Edited by MarcoSnow

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I don't know if someone posted this already, but when the opening of MLE plays, the video is exactly 1 beat early. It might not be very noticable if you haven't seen the "original" but for me it was really jarring to watch. Here's teh YT upload for comparison: 

EDIT: Also where did the steam coming out of the characters' mouths go? Why is this "polished" version missing some features the old version had? It really added a nice touch to certain scenes...

Edited by WS Eule

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17 hours ago, rlranft said:

I'm running Windows 10 64 bit with latest updates and have a Radeon R7 370 series card - latest drivers and OS updates are installed.  I currently only see this behavior if the game is in fullscreen mode on my secondary monitor and the game loses focus.  In this case, the taskbar "floats" over the game until focus is returned to the game.  If the game is on the primary display and the game loses focus the taskbar does not "float."

Hope that helps to track down the issue!

Yeah noticed the game seemed a little fuzzy.  Also side note to this when in game i would access the steam overlay to talk to a friend or look at the guide that too would be behind the taskbar, but only with ML all other steam games this issue does not occur hope this helps

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Hope fully the devs can find this issue soon and fix it

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No blur on my end - actually, because of some of the scaling of sub-elements (character motion effects mostly - like that little "zoom in to bop someone") or backgrounds I more often see aliasing than blur.

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7 hours ago, rlranft said:

No blur on my end - actually, because of some of the scaling of sub-elements (character motion effects mostly - like that little "zoom in to bop someone") or backgrounds I more often see aliasing than blur.

This, some anti  aliasing  would be really good.

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Depending on how the renderer is implemented this may be a non-trivial thing to fix - or were you suggesting the inclusion of upsampled and filtered images for each possible desktop resolution?  To me that looks like foreground aliasing and background blur - almost like it's caused more by a simulated depth-of-field filter (or manual artist tweaks to simulate depth-of-field) than anything else.

So, here's a screenshot in windowed mode:

windowedTrain.png

And the same shot in fullscreen:

fullscreenTrain.png

Finally, the windowed shot resized to 200% in a normal photo editing tool using simple resampling:

windowedTrain_upscale_w_filter.png

I'm afraid you'll have to download them to really compare them, but it looks like Muv Luv is just using a simple upsample with a resample pass for a filter - or something similarly straightforward (otherwise it wouldn't be aliased, it'd be heavily pixelated).  While this shot does an excellent job of showcasing the complaint it's not particularly horrible.  I think this would qualify as "incredibly blurry" though:

windowedTrain_blurry.png

The first thing I noticed about this scene was the reflection of the two girls in the window on the right - you can see the girl with the purse sitting on the left side of the train but the reflection is absolutely off (the angle is all wrong).

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Last one looks like Photoshop. Mine aren't. Mine is one ( 1440p), taken full screen.  The second one I show is filtered through Waifux2.  (With no compression, it can actually reach the same size as the normal image with compression)

 

And no, I'm not recommending pictures for all resolution sizes. I'm merely asking why I can boot up VN's from the 90's and they look better - early 2000's VNs, ect, any VN really, looks better than this release, visually. Even the original CD / DVD version, full screen, has none of the blur and minimal aliasing.

 

I think the rendering engine in this, when it resizes, tries to apply some type of FXAA. Which is basically a blur filter on the image to make jaggies harder to notice. AS you can see - result is awful.  I'd like an option to disable the blur. I'd take the aliasing, jaggies are part of life, but the blurry nature ruins the image entirely to me, as you can see. The first image, the "Default" one in the comparison, is completely uneditted. That is straight from the game itself.  The actually CG's themselves are of fine quality, it's just the Engine has a super shitty resizer. Like MS Paint level.  I can go boot up Fate / Stay Night, a VN made around the same year as the original Muv Luv (2004 VS 2003), full screen it, and the image is crisp and clear. Not the case in Muv Luv Steam release - but the case of the original DVD release. Whatever their new method for resizing images is, it's awful. Just awful.

 

My screen is 2560 x 1440 - 80% more pixels than 1080p. The images are 1152 x 600.  F/SN's CGs are 800 x 600.  The ones in a game like YU-NO are even smaller, and yet clear and detailed on my monitor.  Not the case with Muv Luv and I really need this fixed or I'm regretting purchasing this. New translation is cool and all, as is actually -owning- the game, but the DVD version, while 4:3, still visually, looks superior.

Edited by Mkilbride

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The last one was a blur filter - thus blurry.  Anyway, it all still seems like much ado about nothing - but I've always been story/gameplay over visual fidelity.

Edited by rlranft

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Gameplay?
 

it's a VN. Listen, I love the story of the series, but 50% of a VN is literally visual fidelity.

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Hope fully the devs can find this issue soon and fix it

 

But so far no word..I am hopeing this mean "we are aware of the issue and working to replicate and address it in a timely fashion.  Thank you for your information and patience."

 

 

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I wish they could re-release the original dvd version for those who are dissatisfied with this "remastered" version of the game, in its current state.
(I'd pay for that)

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24 minutes ago, ProfesseurM said:

I wish they could re-release the original dvd version for those who are dissatisfied with this "remastered" version of the game, in its current state.
(I'd pay for that)

I don't think you understand that 

1 The DVD version doesn't run on modern OSes without crashing issues

2  The DVD version had wasn't translated other then the fan translation so that wouldn't help you... I mean they could add the script on top of the DVD version.... but that would be far too much effort for very little gain.

Edited by Randomacts

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17 minutes ago, Randomacts said:

I don't think you understand that 

1 The DVD version doesn't run on modern OSes without crashing issues

2  The DVD version had wasn't translated other then the fan translation so that wouldn't help you... I mean they could add the script on top of the DVD version.... but that would be far too much effort for very little gain.

I know these shortcomings and I'm fine with them.

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8 hours ago, Mkilbride said:

Gameplay?
 

it's a VN. Listen, I love the story of the series, but 50% of a VN is literally visual fidelity.

 
 
 

Gotcha - but I said "I've always been story/gameplay over visual fidelity."  In this case, it's obviously not gameplay.  I'll readily admit that I'm very forgiving in this department - I played Pong when it was new, so I likely have a very different perspective than probably 75% of the gaming community.  The art still looks pretty good (I mean, it's not 320x240, right?).

Edited by rlranft

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Running full screen it looks as bad as all that, yeah. I still play many 90's game, and have watched movies from the 40's, and anime from the 80's as well...so it's not my issue, my issue is the blur filter makes it look like ass.

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Have the devs said anything yet?   Like that they have replicated this bug and all that?

 

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On 8/4/2016 at 7:39 AM, MarcoSnow said:

I really like Muv-Luv Unlimited* for the rich sci-fi universe it established, but this review raises plenty of good points (and not just about this issue). Nothing should be completely above criticism. In fact, it's practically inevitable that you'll like certain parts of a particular work and dislike others; after all, this is a natural part of engaging with any literary work or piece of entertainment. To dismiss the reviewer and those who share similar views as "too casual" or "part of the [modern] PC culture" glosses over the parts of the game that genuinely deserve criticism (the distasteful "harem" trope, shameless fan-service, and poor pacing, to name three).

*I'm in the practically nonexistent minority that prefers Unlimited to Alternative.

I think it's good that critique is accepted in general, and it's surprising for me to see it being linked to on the Steam news feed given it's a "negative" review.

I think RPS' complaint about the scene with the see through suits is an interesting one. In the all ages version they kinda look really ugly. The color scheme doesn't really match really well and the scene is kind of weird where all the characters are acting funny when it isn't transparent. I think the scene could have been left out completely and maybe the color of the not really see through parts (in the all ages version) changed to something else that works well with the rest of the suit design. I mean, it is an all ages version and it is not the first time I've read complaints about that particular scene. It's not as if they are really see through, even if they are colored to be like they are. Just make them another color and completely non see through is fine by me (it would be better imho as it would actually look more 'attractive'). I dunno...maybe this would get backlash from others.

Lacrosse was interesting. Many school setting anime/manga have the 'obligatory' sports episode and it was really refreshing to see something NOT baseball/football which is in like 99.999% of those episodes (unless the show is specifically about another sport)

____

On the bluriness, have you tried playing in windowed with a smaller screen resolution? Your pixel density per inch (dpi) is probably too high. Older games don't really scale well to higher density screens and it really doesn't make a noticeable difference.

Edited by limith

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Except that I can play any older game full screen and it's fine.  It's the game upscaler that's at fault here, it should stop trying to stretch the image and change your screen resolution, like the others.

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Regarding the full screen issue that pop'ed up after Windows 10's upgrade, it seems to be related to the Age's game engine, I have Schwarzesmarken and Muv Luv Alternative installed and now both have the same full screen issue... :\

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