Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
David

What are your thoughts on the ending of Alternative?

Thoughts on ending of Alternative?   45 members have voted

  1. 1. Ending of MLA

    • Loved it
      22
    • Liked it mostly, but I had some issues with it
      13
    • Mixed feelings towards it/I'm too conflicted with emotions
      8
    • Didn't like it, but there are parts that I liked
      2
    • Hated it
      0

Please sign in or register to vote in this poll.

68 posts in this topic

49 minutes ago, frogtaku said:

This is out of topic, but according to people who follow âge's weekly streamings, he already shared some of his ideas for a MLA2 and TE was a buildup to it at first. He also said that he'd love to do it in that backer-exclusive interview. So it is far from being impossible.

Oh, I probably missed that. Thanks for the information.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, frogtaku said:

This is out of topic, but according to people who follow âge's weekly streamings, he already shared some of his ideas for a MLA2 and TE was a buildup to it at first. He also said that he'd love to do it in that backer-exclusive interview. So it is far from being impossible.

IF we are going for some sequel I hope it some far future thing like 10yrs after MLA with ALT-Hibiki being the lead or at least leader of MC squad or something. You know bringing the side characters into the main story

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, WS Eule said:

While I can see where the rest of your points come from, saying that it was some sort of an asspull is simply not true. 

While I wouldn't qualify as an asspull, of all the deaths only Ayamine's and Meiya seemed necessary to me. The other three were just: "Oh, I'm dead",

Spoiler

basically from catching the idiot ball (Yeah, I'm out of ammo, so I'm just going to stay completely still and in no way take advantage of superior manoeuvrability, speed, close combat and agility inside a hive the Takemi was build for), out of nowhere attacks (so, somehow the Takemi isn't shielded against electric attacks? and how it even works? such high voltage would discharge against anything else, in fact if it's so high it would probably directly ionize the air) and...

dammit, I even forgot specifically how Chizuru died. That could already tell you how mad those deaths made me. Not only from everything above, but also narratively: they served no purpose other than make you sad. If I wanted that I would be playing a Key game, thank you

I just found it very lame. It wasn't fair to those characters to just send them like that. Thankfully, there was Final extra so I could say them goodbye properly. And still, the final scene with the superior was fairly cool.

Edited by Marx-93

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Svenhent said:

 

  Hide contents

Also, I had given some thought on Takeru's memory lost before, and I think it's happening in a good way.

Since Sumika developed such beyond-the-worlds ability with just her will and longing for Takeru, who knows what may happen if Takeru also brought back similar emotional attachment back to the original world. We all had seen how deep Takeru's ties with all the other characters in the other world(s).

With the pseudoscience of Casualty Conductor (though Yuuko mentioned Takeru most probably not being one anymore), something more might happen if those memories remains.

So, I do agree this is the most logical way to end the whole journey.

 

That was not Sumika

Spoiler

Sumika was killed by Yuuko when she created the 00 Unit, this was directly confirmed by Yuuko post-ptsd when she offes Takeru the gun to kill her. The 00 unit is just a robot pretending to be sumika.

Edited by David

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm okay with MLA's ending with Extra repeat (even Altered Fable could be treated as aftermath of MLA's Extra ending, which is unfortunately, non canon). But i really need more stories about Post-Operation Cherry Blossom, where humanity slowly reclaimed their land thanks to Valkyrie Data. We only have short story about the remnants of Isumi's Valkyrie in 2003.

What happened in MLA's universe after Takeru was long forgotten?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was truly struck down by the bitterness of MLA's ending.
Even if there exists some kind of happiness in it, and even if the full cast is alive there, the Final Extra universe is just saddening, in a way. You know, I can't but look at it as some kind of grave for what's left of Alternative Takeru, a possibility existing only to the purpose of gifting a peace devoid of all the concept of "past". Sure, Takeru cries, there's Kasumi and the hope for an ever-peaceful future is not to be denied; however it just felt terribly empty to me as a reader, because with the existence of Alternive Takeru wiped away, a lot of individuals or, to put it more clearly, a lot of "fractions" of those individuals have lost their turning point, what made them grow, what defined their identities as the story proceeded. Still, it is a narratively coherent ending, and, beyond all the sadness I had to get through to accept it, I liked it, and I know it was for the best and that it holds a strong and irreplaceable value.
On the other hand, speaking specifically of how things turned out in the Alternative universe, I was very satisfied with what we came to learn about BETAs. Regarding their Creators, I think it is right that we don't find out anything more about them, and that they keep that aura of trascendence, like they're impossibile to discern: in fact, I'm not sure if I want the matter to be explored more in depth in an hypotetical sequel. 

Edited by LucusQuies

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
56 minutes ago, Marx-93 said:

The other three were just: "Oh, I'm dead",

I think the whole scene wasn't as much about who died and who survived, but more how their whole "collective web of lies to make sure they can let the others progress further without looking back" is being progressively unfolded in front of your eyes. If I had a complaint to make it would be that it was a bit convoluted. But ultimately:

Spoiler

It was their purpose. They were selected by Yuuko for their (quantum observation?) ability to make the choices that lead to the best outcomes. It makes you wonder how it would have ended with lesser candidates.

 

Edited by frogtaku

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, MRD_orangiseng said:

What happened in MLA's universe after Takeru was long forgotten?

Based on Chronicles PV, Yuuko is highly likely to be imprisoned (by Alt V peoplemost likely) in crazy land. She's repeatedly interrogated about somehing, but she repeats that Takeru saved the world.

Kasumi meets esper girl from TE and promises she'll never forget Takeru

Takeru lives on through the XM3: Machines which use the xm3 for the first time will look like they're being operated by Takeru

Humanity (Akane makes cameo) takes part in Sledgehammer to capture H20. XM3, new weapons and Valkyries data (code name to cover 00 Unit's existence) make the operation a success.

Japan deploys Type-04 after Yuuhi tells them to get their asses out of their heads and focus on the war with BETA

Europe gives Japan Typhoons for purchase evaluation

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, David said:

That was not Sumika

  Hide contents

Sumika was killed by Yuuko when she created the 00 Unit, this was directly confirmed by Yuuko post-ptsd when she offes Takeru the gun to kill her. The 00 unit is just a robot pretending to be sumika.

Erm, @David, my reference of "ability" was actually referring to:

Spoiler

The reason why Takeru became a Causality Conductor, which was indeed caused by Sumika. It was explained during the epilogue before he was transported back to his original world.

The reason why "Extra" Takeru(s) is brought into "Unlimited/Alternative" was due to Sumika's strong will and desire to meet Takeru again. The "Unlimited" Takeru was brutally killed in front of her while she was "censored" until becoming a brain. However, during those time, she actually retained her conscious. 

About the time when G-Bomb was deployed, its miraculous side-effect (I think it was also vaguely explained in Alternative?) actually reacted with Sumika's desire to meet Takeru once more and that actually was part of the reason "Extra" Takeru was linked into Unlimited's world and brought in as a Causality Conductor.

So, what I was referencing was the fact that Sumika's Luv (sorry for the pun) for Takeru was the reason why Unlimited and Alternative was brought into the story when those were supposedly parallel universe without any link. Her feeling and emotion connected those worlds, thus I referred it as beyond-the-worlds ability.

Also, Yuuko said that with Sumika's not around anymore, Takeru's role as a Causality Conductor probably ended as well so he can return to his world.

I think that's what happened in Alternative ending. Guys, can I check with you all if I'm remembering it correctly?

As for your statement of that was not Sumika, well... I'll just say that I get what you meant.

Edited by Svenhent

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@David, continuing what you said: the European Union also starts an operation to retake the European continent on 2005. Oh, and with the Soviets Project Total Eclipse is somehow a success. I don't know how, what, why or even if it really will be helpful or not, but heh, it will probably end with Yuuya having an harem of Albino lolis and more Z Gundam ripoffs.

 

10 minutes ago, frogtaku said:

I think the whole scene wasn't as much about who died and who survived, but more how their whole "collective web of lies to make sure they can let the others progress further without turning their back" being progressively unfolded in front of your eyes. If I had a complaint to make it would be that it was a bit convoluted. But ultimately:

  Reveal hidden contents

It was their purpose. They were selected by Yuuko for their (quantum observation?) ability to make the choices that lead to the best outcomes. It makes you wonder how it would have ended with lesser candidates.

 

Yeah, looking at it this way it's fairly easier to accept, but I still don't like it. The deaths are, I don't know, so lame? If they were better i could have accepted it, but in my case, after the shock all could I think was "a better pilot could have avoided it easily".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Svenhent said:

As for your statement of that was not Sumika, well... I'll just say that I get what you meant.

My bad then. There's a just common misconception going around that

Spoiler

sumika becomes the 00 unit. Even I used to think that

and I replied by instinct.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Marx-93 They do not have a problem of skill. But logistics.

Spoiler

Taking Kei and Chizuru out because they took the only choice that made sense. Miki has a faulty jump unit making her a sitting duck, Mikoto is out of ammo, short on time (BETA getting inside the corridor), and cut from Takeru. Not even mentionning the fact that the Carrier-class was out of everyone's calculations.

As for Meiya, it was the best she could do to gain time. A Takemikazuchi can only take you so far in front of fast, multiplicating, overwhelming, infiltrating, corrupting tentacles. And I doubt pilots were trained to dodge more than a few Fortress-class tentacles.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, frogtaku said:

@Marx-93 They do not have a problem of skill. But logistics.

  Hide contents

Taking Kei and Chizuru out because they took the only choice that made sense. Miki has a faulty jump unit making her a sitting duck, Mikoto is out of ammo, short on time (BETA getting inside the corridor), and cut from Takeru. Not even mentionning the fact that the Carrier-class was out of everyone's calculations.

As for Meiya, it was the best she could do to gain time. A Takemikazuchi can only take you so far in front of fast, multiplicating, overwhelming, infiltrating, corrupting tentacles. And I doubt pilots were trained to dodge more than a few Fortress-class tentacles.

 

Spoiler

I don't have a problem with Meiya or Kei. those two were done right. With Chizuru, as I said I don't remember the specifics (I remember finding it like the other two though), so I'll concede.

The last though no. Miki was a sitting duck because he was acting like a sitting duck. The Takemi is a 3rd generation TSF that is known as the money sinker of giant robots focusing entirely on manoeuvrability and close combat skills. I admit that the fact that well, with sprites we can't appreciate just how much damaged it was or how much it affected her, but even with it being completely non-functional the TSF don't magically become impossible to move.

And with Mikoto it just was a thing out of nowhere. Even considering a discharge powerful enough to kill a human inside a TSF would automatically discharge through the air like lighting. I mean, killing by a surprise attack still, but killing through a physically impossible surprise attack?

In both cases logistic could have been used well (Miki actually dying surrounded by thousand of tanks tearing into her TSF as she does what she can fighting in close combat, and Mikoto using the S11 to block the corridors as much as she can instead of the terribly bright idea of using the enemy's gate system against them). They weren't in my opinion, and the entire narrative uses them as a simple way to try to make you sad before the final encounter. They could have dies in  a different way, or just disappeared off-screen and nothing would have changed.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Marx-93
Keep in mind my memory is not perfect either:

Spoiler

 

Chizuru died by putting herself in one of the two weakspots in the structure, like Kei, and they synchronized their self-destruction to make it easier for the walls to crumble (they couldn't just let the bombs there, the BETA demonstrated they can disarm them in the previous arc). It was tied to the whole subplot of them not being able to synchronize their movements.

Miki was a sitting duck because she crashed when her jump unit malfunctionned. TSFs have an automatic boost at landing to avoid damage on the joints (that's the thing Meiya and Takeru were worried about when they broke that rock in Unlimited, and they wouldn't just walk away either even without being buried). If she was aiming for the gate it might be difficult to realize, but she wasn't just at a height were she could do that cool landing the TSFs do after a simple jump/salto. In short, her legs were broken, she couldn't just do some karate on BETA.

As for Mikoto I saw it coming personally: a nervous system capable of shutting a HUGE biological door is most probably an electrical powerhouse. So when she thrust her knife, I was like "ah." *BZZZT*. Now I don't know how much an electrical arc can do at that magnitude of power.

And why did she try a roundabout way of shutting the door first? IIRC her equipment was broken following that fatass explosion earlier. However, this is were my memory becomes a bit fuzzy, so I'll have to pay attention next time I read that scene.

 

 

Edited by frogtaku

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think its fair to attribute any illogical action by the squad to

Spoiler

the insane amount of stress they were facing, since they were all teenagers all alone in a place where they had a 99.99% chance of death. And this is just hours after a devastating battle and having their hearts crushed by listening to their lover/husband(UNL memories flowing into them) flirt with another girl. I honestly wouldn't blame Miki if she failed to get a 360 no scope on Fort class standing right in front of her.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The discussions in this thread regarding the place of Alternative's epilogue have convinced me to try to crystallize the ideas floating around in my head regarding it. I owe much of what follows to the discussions I've had with other members of the fandom who remain nameless to this day, across three certain places on the Internet, and by reading old discussions of the trilogy. The discussions held at HongFire when Muv-Luv Alternative originally came out in February 2006 are of particular importance, although it is very unfortunate that the complete set of discussions did not appear to survive the vagaries of time.Unless someone here participated in those discussions all those years ago Spoilers for the trilogy, and I will be referencing in passing some plot elements from both Puella Magi Madoka Magica and Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain, so there are some spoilers for them too.

Tl;dr: I'll attempt to show that from the point of view of seeing Alternative as a science fiction, coming-of-age war story for Takeru with Extra and Unlimited as its (maybe yes, maybe not so much) needed prequels, what happens at the very end of Chapter 10 of Alternative is a fitting, though bittersweet, end to the trilogy and the epilogue appears something which is tacked on, while on the other, looking at how the trilogy as a single, massive work, and how it is structured, that it is unfair for the epilogue to be labeled as such, and that it in fact strongly ties up with the trilogy as a whole. For one reason or the other, my thoughts regarding the latter came out more easily, and thus I'll be covering it first; I'll put down the other perspective later once I organize it.
 

Spoiler

Regarding Final Extra, and more generally the overaching structure of the trilogy itself, I am of two minds-- of two, not entirely contradiction-free, views. One view focuses upon the Takeru as subject, the experiencer of the story and a stand-in for the reader, a normal guy.. but combined with some meta-knowledge about the thematic structure and the genre context of the trilogy. The other focuses on Takeru as object, someone who experienced the events of the trilogy.. combined with the details of the quantum causality theory described in-universe, that is, its thematic and mechanismal elements. In one view I attempt to both identify with Takeru and see things from his (admittedly-limited, non-omniscient) perspective while keeping in mind some meta elements, while in the other I attempt to look at him from a distance, however short it may be, but still look at him and the story from a quasi-omniscient perspective, the perspective of the reader. So you can say that the one looks at the trilogy and attempts (however pitifully) to situate it in an external context, while the other looks at the trilogy as a thematically self-complete work. I consider each in turn.

Takeru-as-subject. You, who have been going through a peaceful life enlivened by the antics of your childhood friend, some rich young lady with her entourage who for some reason keeps declaring that the two of you are destined together, your crazy science teacher and pushover-but-motherly homeroom teacher, your best buddy and video game rival, your class rep and your slacker classmate who are perpetually at loggerheads, and your easily-flustered, catgirl classmate, are having a dream. The final moments of the dream just as you wake up, you realize, are those in which the childhood friend and the rich young lady have both declared (to each other) their love for you. And the first thing you see stepping outside your house is a honest-to-goodness robot. You must still be dreaming, you think. But after going through lots of things and getting the shock of your life on Christmas Eve you feel like you've been going native, and your time in the peaceful world seems to be fading, like some strongly-experienced, all-too-real dream that have nevertheless been disappearing over time. Unlimited punctuates this by using the nostalgic, musicbox theme A World I Must Protect as background during those scenes. Was your time in Extra the dream and you've lived in this world all the while (the various naysayers saying why a dead man is walking around notwithstanding)? Or were you correct the first time around, and that this you've been experiencing, slaps, guns thrust into the back and all, is all but a dream-- a photorealistic, full-3D digital IMAXbut so much more production delivered directly into your brain that your videogame-honed, hyperactive mind has managed to conjure in your sleep? Who cares, humanity has given up on this your world, and now it falls on you, among other people, to protect it.

I had a dream.
A dream of people living innocently, without knowing the meaning of peace.
I had a dream.
A dream of people risking their lives and living for the sake of protecting something.
The boundary between dream and reality feels.. exactly how I do seeing what I see the moment I awake.
I think...only God knows which it was.

I bolded one particular line from Takeru's monologue above from the end of Unlimited, as Ixrec, who translated the trilogy, completely missed translating it (夢と現実の境界は・・・目覚めたときに見えたものを、どう感じるかだけだ。), and my own rendering of it is admittedly less than ideal. Dream and reality have become indistinguishable to you, and what separates them may well lie in the twilight of that moment between dreaming and waking, and only God can tell which was the dream, and which was reality. But it no longer matters to you: this is your world now, and humanity has just given up on it. You are a soldier, a Guardsman, and you have an abandoned world to protect.

And then, you wake up.

The last moments of the dream you remember are the dying screams of you and your squadron as you slowly get overrun by BETA in your Gekishins, Fortress-class Gravis among them (BETA? Gekishin? Gravis? What are those, and how the hell did you know what they are called anyway?)Here I am going by the start of the manga adaptation of Alternative, which does a good job of retelling the VN's story while expanding it. You (sort-of-half) remember going out with guns all blazing and sword in hand, even when your mech's arms have been torn off. You tell yourself, whew, it's all a dream, better not get late to school... until you step out of your house and see the ruined Gekishin which had crushed your childhood friend's home (Again, how the hell did you know its name?) Then and there, you pinch yourself, slap your cheeks, and decide: This is reality. You better hurry: you know what's going to happen, you'll be damned if you let it happen this time around. You a plan to prevent, a war to fight, and a world to save. And at the end of it all, having beheld your precious ones (尊い存在) and even your beloved give up their lives for humanity, their friends, and you, you do. However, your moment of victory was itself the moment when your doom was sealed: you are an existence which was never supposed to be; you are indeed a "dead man walking", and now you are fated to go back into nonexistence; everyone will forget you, and your memories of your comrades' last moments, their dearest wishes for you to always remember them, will cease to exist along with you. As much as you want to cry and rage at the unreasonableness of this world, as much as you want to keep fighting in this world you have adopted as your own, you won't break down. A bratty hero you may be, but you are a hero, and heroes always die due to unreasonable circumstances. So you wait by your comrades' collective cenotaph by the cherry trees, chat one last time with your superior and that Russian psyker who have grown dear to your heart too, and bid them goodb-- no, it's not goodbye, it's "See you later".

And then, you wake up.

Whew, that was such an exciting and massively-depressing dre-- wait, what happened in that dream again? Some snatches are floating around in your subconscious, just out of reach of your consciousness. But more importantly, who the hell is this girl in the bed with you? And why do you feel such an urge to tear up, and do, the moment you see her?

The narrative device of telling a story, and then revealing at the end that it was all a dream, a hallucination, or else to question whether it had been so, has a long pedigree in narrative works, with Alice in Wonderland as a fine example. Japanese, however, have attached a specific term to it: yume-ochi (夢オチ). See this 2006 blog post for someone's discussion of the term. For example, (MGSV spoilers!

Spoiler

The entire subplot with Paz surviving in The Phantom Pain turns out to be you, as Venom Snake, hallucinating all the while. But why do you learn all this from Paz telling you so via an audio tape? Such a lust for mind screw...

Another one is the very prologue of Puella Magi Madoka Magica, in which Madoka gets offered to make a contract to become a magical girl... and then wakes up. It is telling that the first words she uses when she wakes, what was translated into English as "...A dream..?", is precisely "...Yume-ochi..?", instead of the more usual variants of saying it, but more detailed Madoka discussion is something best left to a thread, or threads, elsewhere on this forum. A bit of trivia, Urobuchi Gen and Yoshimune Kouki are very good buddies, and a lot of us Muv-Luv fans think that it may have influenced Madoka beyond the most obvious example (you know what I'm talking about).

Final Extra precisely ties into the yume-ochi structure of the Muv-Luv trilogy. The latter is one of quite a lot of creative works in Japanese which came out in the early to mid 2000s, and even earlier, which can loosely be called "yume-ochi" stories. The twist is, as Takeru mentioned in his Unlimited speech, what is dream and what is reality has become an undecidable question, as you can no longer distinguish between them and "only God knows what it was". (I regret the non-translation of that line for precisely this reason as it calls forward and confirms that thematically, Final Extra is an integral component of the trilogy, and closes the circle started by Extra, which itself starts off with a dream that is all too real). Regardless of which is the dream and which is the reality (or even if both are dreams or both are realities), Takeru decides to strive with all his might, as this-- regardless of which-- is his world. As for us, regardless of whether this we experience is reality or we are all brains in jars plugged into something surpassing the Matrix, we should, too.

The next part is to follow later, although I want to offer the first part to you to (maybe) stimulate some discussion.

Edited by The Green String

4 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Pretty good stuff, I'll have to read it again to fully grasp what you are saying (can't adventure myself in the MSGV spoilers though).

I think what sets apart the yume-ochi aspect of the story from others of that kind I have read is that:

Spoiler

The story is grounded into a specific hypothesis regarding quantum mechanics that might be correct, the Everett theory, in which subjective experience is a huge deal.

 

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, frogtaku said:

Pretty good stuff, I'll have to read it again to fully grasp what you are saying (can't adventure myself in the MSGV spoilers though).

I think what sets apart the yume-ochi aspect of the story from others of that kind I have read is that:

  Reveal hidden contents

The story is grounded into a specific hypothesis regarding quantum mechanics that might be correct, the Everett theory, in which subjective experience is a huge deal.

 

Thanks. I'll cover the spoilered part of your post later, as it is part of "my other mind" regarding Alternative's ending.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/11/2015 17:13:32, frogtaku said:

@Marx-93
Keep in mind my memory is not perfect either:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Chizuru died by putting herself in one of the two weakspots in the structure, like Kei, and they synchronized their self-destruction to make it easier for the walls to crumble (they couldn't just let the bombs there, the BETA demonstrated they can disarm them in the previous arc). It was tied to the whole subplot of them not being able to synchronize their movements.

Miki was a sitting duck because she crashed when her jump unit malfunctionned. TSFs have an automatic boost at landing to avoid damage on the joints (that's the thing Meiya and Takeru were worried about when they broke that rock in Unlimited, and they wouldn't just walk away either even without being buried). If she was aiming for the gate it might be difficult to realize, but she wasn't just at a height were she could do that cool landing the TSFs do after a simple jump/salto. In short, her legs were broken, she couldn't just do some karate on BETA.

As for Mikoto I saw it coming personally: a nervous system capable of shutting a HUGE biological door is most probably an electrical powerhouse. So when she thrust her knife, I was like "ah." *BZZZT*. Now I don't know how much an electrical arc can do at that magnitude of power.

And why did she try a roundabout way of shutting the door first? IIRC her equipment was broken following that fatass explosion earlier. However, this is were my memory becomes a bit fuzzy, so I'll have to pay attention next time I read that scene.

 

 

Thanks for the reminder. I Installed Windows 7 2 years ago, and as MuvLuv was already an extremely big pain on XP, I decided to not bother installing it (and well, after sumer's announcement I refrained myself to replay it its full glory laster).

Spoiler

Looking at it objectively, it's true that most of their deaths are fairly explainable, despite some ambiguities (due to using her normal sprite I thought Miki's TSF wasn't that damaged, but if that crash had destroyed her joints then it's certainly normal; why they couldn't use a more explicit CG like with Kei?).

I suppose that part of my comment about their skill was more due to the expanded material we've seen. Total eclipse, scarlet sisters notwithstanding, already had lots of pilots do a lot of fairly hard stuff, and never panicking like in Alternative. The Eurofront was also a lot like that, with the Zerberus battallion nonchalantly ripping BETA apart while joking. Oh, and there's schwarzesmarken, when even in what few we have translated they do lots of ridiculous stuff (like destroying a block of destroyers from the front through aiming at the terrain) in what are basically 1st generation machines. As I was that, the more I thought that those deaths could have been very avoidable. But well, at this point I'm simply rambling, so let's end it for now.

Oh, and @The Green String, great post. I also found that there was a clear idea of dream\reality on Muv-Luv, which also explained a little the whole thing of memories\being-or-not-the-same-person\etc. Causality or imformation flowing from one world to the other is extremely dumb in a normal Everett interpretation, but taking more the idea of multiple dreams inside a dream makes everything a lot more palatable. They are not merely parallel worlds, but are interconnect and a person is connected to their "other identities" (another concept that made no sense otherwise specially when Muv:Luv itself went specially out of their way to remark that the memories are what makes the person).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Marx-93

Spoiler

To be fair, they are in the single worst place ever on Earth, being a little task force against multiple times the number of BETA met at Sadogashima, those guys starting to adapt by the hour instead of years, after hours of battle and a meager rest at their own home, with no backup nor rescue and probably not at their psychological prime as @David said. And the enemy is throwing all its jokers at them, like the Carrier-class, fucking all their calculations. They are so utterly screwed that I can't even find the proper words to express it. And I probably left out a lot of factors.

Honestly, you can do all the cool shit and jokes ever against armies of BETA, but there's so much more than skill at play there. I won't mention the fact that if in subsequent works you might see awesome stuff making them look like noobs (which I will give the benefit of the doubt and temporarily say that they do not), the problem might be there and not in the original story.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have different take on the whole epilogue.

Spoiler

The Takeru that was brought back is not the same Takeru that fought and went through all of that gut-wrenching events in BETA timeline, two different entities even though it's same body but he pretty much died when you remove his memories, I disagree that he deserved his harem, the Takeru that went through all that? sure. The "normal" Takeru? no.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Marx-93 Just (sorta) remembered something about Miki!

Spoiler

Where I am not sure is whether her TSF is standing or not, but I am almost sure her cockpit CGs at that scene made me think she is squatting or in sitting position, implying she can't move anymore. I'll have to watch some AMVs, because one might clear that blurry memory of mine of her TSF being sat down and aiming with one hand at the gate's "brain".

 

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Loved it but the memories being lost was up and down with me.

I want the story to continue. 

Have him brought back, take all the extra crew with him too set after alternative.  Lal.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

a few bits of me were a bit torn. Like how Takeru was going to be forgotten in the Alt uni. But for the most part I was just happy that he gets his own world and that everyone is there with him. I started to cry with Kasumi when she appeared in the alt-Extra uni.

3 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The ending does not end the story. Liberation the Earth. The collapse of the temporary alliances. Liberation and conflicts for the moon, and the G-element. In the US it is not. Main stocks G-elements in the USSR, the Japanese Empire, China. There he is, the EU, India, Iraq, Persia, Indochina. And the EU in the universe MuvLuv on the verge of collapse on :

Nordic United Kingdom (as mix https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_between_Sweden_and_Norway and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denmark–Norway (Sweden-Denmark-Norway-Iceland-Greenland-Finland-Faroe Islands) Seven king. Tolerance relations with all , but EESA declared himself their enemy. These countries have small populations and a good fleet. Therefore, time to evacuate people without large losses in Greenland, Iceland and the Faroe Islands where they have normal living conditions, rather than the US refugee camps. And therefore do not understand the psychological problems of others. They trade with all. And technologies including. Due to their friendliness to the US and had a conflict with EESA. But the Soviet Union a good relationship with NUK because they do not refuse to trade with him. ( G from Rovaniem Hive)

EESA - East Germany, Yugoslavia, Czechoslovakia, Romania, Hungary, Bulgaria, Albania, Poland and ally Cuba. Separately from the Soviet Union because the Soviet Union has become more nationalistic. Tolerant relationship with the USSR and EU. Hostile relations with the USA and NUK. Less than initially totalitarian, no surveillance. And for dissidence maximum flogging, but the State Council under the leadership of the army and the economy administrative directive. Even under the instruction of reproduction. Because the population is very seriously damaged. As well as the EU to focus on its internal problems. But anti-Americanism around. The image of the enemy - American. (G from Budapest Hive)

EU (West Germany-France-Austria-Italy-Netherlands-Belgium-Spain-Portugal and ally Switzerland) Democratic countries with very large grudge against the US for the nightmare experienced by the refugee camps and for the fact that the Americans have not suffered during the war, although it started due to the fact that they found on the Moon.They are religious because of the horror. Tolerant international relations with all. But look at all suspicious. And to keep his distance and to focus on its internal problems. (G from Lyon Hive ).

Also collapsed and United Front of China.

ROC received South China ( in real word Chang Kaishek proposed such a partition of China in 1948.) moderate nationalists. on friendly terms with the United States. They steal technology. (G from Chongqing Hive)

PRC save North part China moderate socialist and moderate nationalists. They steal technology. Intrigues against the Soviet Union and the Japanese Empire. Normal relations with the United States. Indignant Soviet annexation of Mongolia. Constant border skirmishes between the pilots. But the fight against the Soviet Union feared. At the same time it has a large number of rare G elements. Although the total reserves of are inferior Japanese Empire. But third place in the world.But the technology lag behind the technology 1.Japan Empire 2.USA 3. USSR 4. EU-NUK-EESA (G from Dunhuang Hive and Kashgar Hive)

Japan Empire recerved G and from Cheorwon Hive - Korea part Japan Empire. This is generally one of the strongest countries in the world because it has the world's second largest stocks of G and thus not as much as the USSR and China suffered from the war.

USSR annex Mongolia (in real world only conflict USSR with China in 1969 Damanskiy Island, not let this happen. But in Mongolia Cyrilic alphabet and USSR standards in industrial and habitation.) Have largest G stock in world. In Cold War state with USA. But trade with all other country and do not want to fight with them. This is a strange country. Others often do not understand it.

USA In order to have their G reserves captures Iraq and Anbar Hive. USA Technologies - nothing superb, but a lot of different and in large quantities. The main objective - to get the maximum amount of G elements. For this go to any intrigue, alliances that are not constant. Theft, black market, espionage even against the Allies. All in order to obtain G elements. Any dirty work.

India restored and have G from B(h)opal Hive - independent country with an independent policy. Calmly he suffered loss and recovered without totalitarianism.

Southeast Confederation. (Vietnam-Myanmar-Laos-Cambodia-Tailand) Democratic state but have powerful and socialistic party and liberal democracy party Is therefore friendly and the Soviet Union and the Japanese Empire. Tolerant relationship with EU, NUK, EESA, India. Difficult relationship with USA (because of their ambitions.) ROC ( The territorial dispute.)

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.